Too funny! Watch out for the SCWDP "Hammy Hamster Hit Squad".

They resemble that remark.

I have an extra .2 of a hamster under the hood.

Good luck busting Singaporian insurance fraud wide open.

Be careful or the ASCDL* will get you.


*Anti SC Defamation League. :)

Ww haven't had a real good SC bashing thread in a while. Should we let open the floodgates? :D

Ez there you R groupie's and B-rated classes. You don't want to feel the wrath of the SCWDP hit squad. Remember we are bulletproof and can take the heat!! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/vuur.gif MUHAHAHAHA

Jim,

Yes, the hoses are a weak link. If you want to keep everything looking original then I would replace them every couple of years, depending on use. It is not totally the hose but the hose connections to the fittings. Most failures of hoses are not in the middle of the hose but are at the connections. Use only the “pinch-bolt” type clamp of the correct size and not the “worm-screw” type. Most are size 12.
A difficult issue with your E is there may be several hose-pipe assemblies that probably are not replaceable. To replace the hoses you might find someone who can swage a “bump” near the pipe end, like the hose banjo fittings at the mechanical pump and fuel filter.
Your best bet is to carefully document and save all the original hoses, fittings, pipe assemblies and hardware. Get the necessary pieces (new and used) and convert to -6 SS hoses. Don’t forget the -2 cold start plumbing.

Aeroquip and others make a protective insulating “Fire Sleeve” that loosely goes over hoses. That is useful in the hot area between the tunnel and fuel filter unit.

Does your E still have the fuel pump under the rear? If so, this might be an opportunity to put it in front like ’69-’70 mounted on the cross member. You should be able to find all the original mounting and hardware used. Buy a new pump and clean the pick-up screen in the tank while you are there.

Who has experience (good or bad) with the plastic fuel pipes in the tunnel?

Remember, a fire takes three things; a fuel leak, a spark, and lots of air. Without care a 911 can provide all of these in abundance.

This thread brings up another issue. How many have a fire extinguisher system? Even a hand extinguisher? What if the owner of this nice 911 had a 10# Halon system? There might not have been such a disaster.

Best,
Grady

Now let me address how a fire can start from my own personal experience:

There are soft fuel lines in the vicinity of the fuel filter and accumulator. If one ruptures, the motor will immediately stop as fuel pressure goes to zero. CIS doesn't like that. While you are still coasting, fuel is pouring onto the hot exhaust because early SC's don't have a cutoff for the fuel pump when the motor stops turning. Now flames are pouring out of the engine compartment. If the lid id fiberglass, it will disappear in a hurry. It will not take long for the interior to become engulfed. My car was almost completely stripped out and still had incredible damage in teh interior. The headliner and seats supported combustion quite well and then the dash area becomes engulfed. The glass melts, the steering wheel burns and falls off, the instruments melt and then progress is made toward the fuel tank.

In the rear, the intense heat will ignite the magnesium fan assembly. Water has little effect on the magnesium fire and special chemicals need to be used or you have to wait for it to burn out.

The car can become completely involved very quickly and once the mag takes off, it can take a while to completely extinguish.

Here's what you are left with:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1075392961.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1075393023.jpg

That said, that is one of the worst written newspaper stories I've ever read. There was no research done. The author is a real numb skull.

If the author is trying to suggest that there is insurance fraud being committed, he sure didn't make the case based on the facts presented.

Damn Lothar, that's a shocking pic. Those pics are going to give me fuel line paranoia. Good to hear that you made it out OK. Sorry about your 911. Will replacing the soft fuel lines with SS ones cure this fuel line problem? Grady should the "pinch bolt" type of clamp and the "fire sleeve" be used for the SC's too?

My buddy and I were welding the drivers side seat bracket back into place about two weeks ago. The weld melted the plastic fuel return line in the tunnel and it started to leak fuel. You need to realize that the return line is located in its own little "tube" in the tunnel that sits right underneath the bracket. Well, needless to say, the next weld we started nearly blew us up. Even when we put the fire out we had to deal with the full tank of gas that was slowly emptying into my car. We used the fuel pump to drain the tank, then replaced the plastic lines with new non-melting rubber fuel line from good-ol' Kragen Auto. The inside of my car still smells like gas.

We used Kragen line because we couldn't source any factory lines that day, and I had to get back on the road. Should I be concerned? I was a little worried about the rubber lines collapsing from the suction of the fuel pump, but that hose is pretty tough and I don't think it will happen. Suggestions?

Oh, and I definitely carry an extinguisher with me at all times. I did before the fire, and I carry a larger one now. I have it mounted to the shift-linkage cover plate so its out of the way, but I can still reach it if things get ugly.

Lothar,

OUCH big time.
Good that you got out safely. It appears you were on the highway and not the track, hence no Nomex.

Best,
Grady

Hi sprintstar,

Yup, we should meet. I'm a northern dweller myself. Flat six is where I service my ride. Where do you go?

Grady, thanks for the advice! I'm going to start looking into this while the car is still in hibernation. Thanks again.

Hi Dan!

Would be good to meet. I'll PM ya my contact. Yes, Flat 6 is fairly near me. But so far I've been doing all the work on my 911 at home. Yea... I'm cheap. Haha... Have a nice weekend ahead! :)

Sprint.

I don't have an exact cause for the fuel leak. I only know the general area where the fire started which leads me to the filter/accumulator.

I don't know if the hose failes or if a connection went bad. Therefore, I can't say that braided steel is the answer or simply periodic inspection of the lines. CIS operates at high pressures so this is an area for concern. Also, if you have an early SC, you should always turn the key off if the engine stops. Otherwise, the fuel pump continues to run dumping raw gas on your exhaust system.

I had a fire extinguisher with me. The 2.5 Halatron was not sufficient to prevent the reignition that occured due to the running fuel pump.

I don't have hard info; but,
I read a post that said a torn accumulator diaphram leaks.
I don't know for sure ?

Yes, I had an accumulator with torn diaphram once. The thing leaked like a sleeve and I couldn't even drive the car at all. No pressure could build in the CIS system. And on the 924/931 cars, the accumulator is at the rear near the fuel tank, away from the engine. I assume the 911 has the accumulator up front?

Sprint.

SprintStar,

The fuel accumulator and filter are on the left side of the engine compartment in a 911. The fuel pump is locates in the front near the fuel tank.

Hmm... Odd they should put the pump and accumulator so far apart, especially when the accumulator can leak like that.

Can one relocate it in an effort to promote safety?

Another question for all. Is there an fire suppression system available for cheap? How much would the cheapest cost? The sort that has an extingisher aimed at the engine and all you have to do it pull a trigger or something and the engine is covered with foam to put out the fire. Those things use Halon?

Sprint.

To chime in on CIS fuel leaks, I had a fuel line fail two years ago. Starting the car for the first time after replacing the fuel filter, the engine didn't fire after being turned over for perhaps 5 seconds. I was about to turn the key again when I heard a funny dripping sound. Thank goodness I investigated. The little rupture in the fuel line just ahead of the filter had sprayed a fine mist of gas that covered the entire engine compartment. :eek: Had there been a hot exhaust manifold I'm not sure that the fire extinguisher that always sits next to the car when I do anything with fuel would have been much good.

A high pressure / high volume fuel system like that needs respect.