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Triad exhaust for 3.6 conversion - heat?

I am contemplating to order one of the Triad exhausts made by Dave. I am wondering if the stock 993 heater pipe will fit. I really want to get air hooked up to the 993 heat exchangers this time. Can anyone confirm that this will work?

Ingo

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Old 01-28-2004, 09:51 AM
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Ingo

I asked this same question in another thread. Embs didn't seem to know, I would be quite interested in the answer to this as well since if it will work I would order the muffler as well

Todd
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Old 01-28-2004, 10:54 AM
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Todd,

I only hope I won't sink all this money (Triad exhaust, money for heater pipe) only to find out that it doesn't fit.

Did you ever find a heater pipe? If not let me know and I might be able to help.

Ingo
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How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 01-28-2004, 11:08 AM
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Ingo

Yes I did get a heater pipe, just too cold out here to install it. Did you try calling Triad directly to see if they could tell you if it would work? From the pics of Embs car it look like the muffler may sit too high in relation to the engine tin in order for both the tube and the muffler to fit. I'd appreciate you letting me know what you find.

Todd
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Old 01-28-2004, 11:15 AM
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I'm actually in the order "process" right now for the Triad muffler. I forgot to ensure clearance for heat, but it's obviously an issue. I'll see what I can find out.
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Old 01-28-2004, 11:49 AM
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Can you explain more of the order process with Triad? Did you call, email? Are the tips finished? Do you have any custom flexibility as far as the direction of the tips and sizes? What is the finish on the muffler? Sorry for so many q's but I'll prolly be ordering the same this spring.
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Old 01-28-2004, 11:59 AM
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I called & emailed Dave, and he responds to both after 8pm EST. He said that's when he gets in from the shop. I spoke to him about my application, as I'm using a US OBDII Varioram engine, and I need 2 O2 sensors instead of 1. He said he can bend the pipes pretty much however you want, you simply need to give him center to center dimensions for the exit pipes if you want something specific.

The standard tips are painted with black high temperature paint. In the pics of Todd's muffler, it appears as though they are more silvery, so perhaps he made a special request. I mentioned tips to Triad in my last email, and he said there are plenty of aftermarket tips you can add bolt or weld on, but he didn't mention if he uses anything in particular. I assume you can buy or choose whatever you want, and he will mount them.

The muffler looks like it's painted in high temperature black paint. That's one of the questions I asked in my last email, and I'll be sure to post the results once I hear back. As far as the standard "exit pipes", they are 2.5" in diameter, but he said he can use 3" if desired.

The lead time is approximately 2-3 weeks. It's longer in my case due to the placement of the 2 O2 sensors. I struggled with the decision of whether to go the Triad route, as my shop fabs up a nice system with mandrel bent tubes and 2 Spintech mufflers. The cost for their system is higher at $1000-$1200 (the spintech mufflers are over $250 each), and they claim to have good dyno results from it. Sound is important to me, and I couldn't find a car with their system on it to hear, thus I went for the more known quantity of the Triad.

Let me know if you have anymore questions, and I'll see what Triad has to say.
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Old 01-28-2004, 12:11 PM
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Dave is a working Carpenter and I believe he is on a project now, so his "Triad" time begins after a regular work day during the week. I can't answer specific technical questions for him, but I can tell you that the 993 system is new to him (Embs' unit is a one-off prototype....I was frankly quite impressed it worked with no modifications because....). He also does not have a 993 in his shop to fit these things up to. So, providing him with parts or dimensions will help a great deal. Embs shipped the heat exchanger(s) to Dave, which was very helpful for the prototype.

I had him paint my unit (my car is an SC with 3.0L engine) all black. It looks like they usually get a gray paint with black tips.
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Old 01-28-2004, 12:35 PM
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HI . THE PROBLEM THAT I BELIEVE YOU'LL HAVE IS.... IF YOU RETAIN THE 993 SHEETMETAL, KEEP THE A.C. CONSOLE ,USE THE HEAT CROSSOVER AND RUN THE STOCK CRANK PULLEY IT MAKES THE ENGINE ABOUT 2''LONGER THAN EMBS . WHO I BELIEVE IS USING CARRERA SHEEMETAL. DAN
Old 01-28-2004, 04:20 PM
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Ingo,

Since you have a tube, give me the envelope of fit and I'll see what I can come up with.


Old 01-28-2004, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superman
Embs shipped the heat exchanger(s) to Dave, which was very helpful for the prototype.
No Super I shipped Dave my 993 Bischoff style cat. The muffler was perfectly aligned. Dave is a friggin artist.

I apologize to potential Triad buyers, I haven't had a chance to make a good movie/sound file. Engine issues (almost resolve) and now it's just to damn cold!
Old 01-28-2004, 04:51 PM
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Todd,

Does your Triad setup allow you to keep the heat tube? I know that it was definately a consideration when I had my system made up. Heat is a good thing this time of year...even here in Atlanta....it got all the way down to 40 degrees this evening!
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Last edited by Mike Feinstein; 01-28-2004 at 07:26 PM..
Old 01-28-2004, 07:23 PM
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Mike--you have a very nice setup as well. Is this a custom design that can be replicated for sale? Do you have any sound/video clips? I would like to change my exhaust this spring-I'm running a 964 3.6 with 993 cats/header--and am considering something like yours or the triad muffler. It looks like you cut the tips off a 993 cat and welded them to the Magneflow and for outlets added cats (are those cats? or add'l mufflers?) and then the tips. Looks great--how does it sound? Thanks
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Old 01-29-2004, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Embs
Ingo,

Since you have a tube, give me the envelope of fit and I'll see what I can come up with.
Todd, how would I do that? Take measurements at the thing? I'll try and see what I come up with. One thing I know is that the heater pipe and the original cat hug each other pretty snuggly. So if the muffler extends more towards the engine and/or upwards compared to the 993 cat I would be out of luck.

I also like Mike's setup and his heat exchangers are not even the Bishof style but the Gillet with even less room to graft on a dual in Magnaflow. And since I don't like quiet and have no smog requirements I would leave out the resonators or cats or whatever comes out of the Magnaflow. Maybe that's the ticket for me ?

Ingo
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I repair/rebuild Bosch CDI Boxes and Porsche Motronic DMEs
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How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 01-29-2004, 09:03 AM
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I received my Triad exhaust this week , it's finished in silver with black tips , very well made but a bit light on the paint so a spray with a HT aerosol would help, can't fit it till about April so I can't comment on the performance, Superman can though.
Old 01-29-2004, 09:45 AM
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Unfortunately, I didn't give much thought to the Triad muffler allowing room for routing heat, as I foolishly assumed Todd had heat with his Triad. I didn't look closely at the pics for heat.

I anxiously await reports of whether it looks like heat can be successfully routed with the Triad in place!
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:22 PM
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John and Ingo:

It's definately a "one-off" setup, but works and sounds very nice. Aggressive low rumble at idle...impressive primal scream at WOT above 5k. Initially I had the muffler with pipes attached leading to 993 tips. It was still pretty loud (although much quieter than the cat only setup). Resonance inside the car was the problem for me. I went back and added two 12" resonators coming off the muffler and welded on the 993 tips. Man, it's a great setup. The sounds is awesome and resonance is minimal now. Dyno results indicate favorable performance with this setup also. It's a very unrestricted system.

If I had the time and inclination, it'd be a great system to duplicate and bring to market. Just not enough hours in the day. I recommend making friends with someone at a muffler shop that will spend some time with you. Took about 4 hours to fab and install. Total cost about $400. No cat needed where the car is registered, so that wasn't an issue. Gillet flanges made the Triad setup a problem, although Dave was very willing to give it a go if the custom rig was a flop. Guess I lucked out.
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Last edited by Mike Feinstein; 01-29-2004 at 03:19 PM..
Old 01-29-2004, 03:15 PM
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Ingo,

Here's a pic before the resonators went on. If you want to "really" hear it, it may be a good setup for you. Even this way it was much more civilized than running a cat with no muffler.

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Old 01-29-2004, 03:21 PM
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Just because we may not be able to use the stock 993 heat tube certainly doesn't mean that we can't plumb easily for heat.


Ingo,
When I said envelope, I mean dimensions. Get a tape measure and gimme some numbers. I will figure it the best I can. Or send me your heat tube I'll see if it fits and take pictures and then send it right back. PM me for the address.

This is crude I am on a laptop without my CAD or 3DMAX:
Old 01-29-2004, 04:03 PM
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Ingo,

You may like the sound of just the 993 cat with turndowns, ask K9handler or JonT. I like the sound of just the cat, but it was damn loud. Not Harley with straight pipes loud but REAL close.


Also, Mike your exhaust set-up looks to sweet so I think you suck and you should send it to me for further testing!


Last edited by Embs; 01-29-2004 at 04:45 PM..
Old 01-29-2004, 04:42 PM
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