Carrera 3.2 Performance mystery and Chips (long)

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by anh911
Excellent post Steve. Thanks for all the information. And congrats on Pelican carrying your chips.

saved and printed.

The chips are now available in our on-line catalog:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_miscel_pg2.htm#item5

-Wayne

[BGCarrera32]

That was one of the best 911 tech related articles I've read in a long time...very well written Steve.

-BG

[Mike Feinstein]

Steve,

Any plans for a 3.6 chip?

[cowtown]

Great stuff. Guess it takes more than a SnapOn timing light to figure these things out...

Thanks Steve!
Colin

[smoak]

Steve:

I would have to say that your posts are the most infomative on this topic I have seen. I sure tried to communicate my common sense understnding of these topics to a certain other "non-believer" lurking about but I was rebuffed with the "you dont know what I know" techinical arguments. Thank you for this post it made my day!

On Pelican carrying your chips, you mean to tell me that Wayne Dempsey, didn't he write a book or something on Porsche engine building, was "scammed" by Steve Wong too. Gosh, I sure hope that certain someone doesnt find that out! Look out below. The herd is heading off the cliff. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[SRISER]

That was an excellent post. I just learned a ton...will forget 80% however. Went and looked at the stock chip from my '88 and it is a 358. Now I know what that means! A little carbon came out when I installed the new chip (not to return). Now, the question for Steve is that I bought the chip programmed for an '87 with a sport exhaust/cat. I am running a pre-muff with sport exhaust...is this a big deal?

[einreb]

I'm a satisfied customer of Steve's.

With all the chatter over the chips, I'm still a bit puzzled as to the lack of dyno charts comparing a stock 3.2 with mods added one by one and appropriate chips for each mod. I'm talking same car, same day, readable chart, et cetera.

The new charts on steve's site show a clubsport going from 200.1 RWHP to 206.8 with the addition of chip and premuffler, tuning for gas, et cetera. Not a lot of folks start out at the same point (club sport, borla, cone filter) so while interesting... still doesnt satisfy my curiosity.

then there's some graphs of a stock carerra, then one with a euro muffler (but no chip)

then we get one with a chip, and ssi's... but no before/after.

What I think would be pretty cool would be the dyno run at stock. Add a chip tuned for stock. Then the premuffler with a tuned chip. Then a cone filter and a chip. Then SSI's and a chip. I'm sure this could be done in some orderly fashion / compination to figure out the actual best bang for the buck.

so, anyone with an 87-89 done a before and after dyno run with a wong chip and danske euro premuff? couldnt find one via the search. my butt dyno says 198.2 rwhp at 300 feet above sea level with the wind SSW at 10 mph.

having fun,

-bernie

[Jeff Alton]

Steve, I have one of your chips and I love the performance. However, it smells a little rich at idle. Changing the switch on the DME box to lean it out cures the smell but..... performance not as good. Should I have to do this to rid myself of the rich smell? What do you suggest.
Car is an 84 with premuff and sport muffler.

Thanks, Jeff

[Steve W]

Thanks again everyone. Dan, I you should be able to determine the chip by opening the DME and reading the numbers on top of the matte silver foil sticker on top of the chip. Mike - I have 3.6 chips nothing super spectacular at the moment. They are designed to provide a modest boost in part throttle and full throttle performance without affecting emissions. There hasn't been much requests for them, so I have not spent too much time with them. That may change in the future time permitting.

Bernie, even though the Clubsport that was dynoed started off with a cat, Borla muffler and cone filter, I think it is a good representation of what each of the mods do with the stock chip, and a replacement chip, and with the exhaust mods. A muffler alone does not do much to an otherwise stock car to make much of a difference in a dyno baserun. A cone filter also on a stock car does not do anything at stock hp levels. Not until a motor starts reaching 250 hp does the stock airbox begin to get restrictive. Jeff, what I would recommend is upgrading to the 4K program that the 87s and up use. They are more refined and a bit smoother, especially at idle. This may require a simple jumper move in your dme if it is not a 4k box already. Email me for details.

[Stuttgart951]

Very informative Steve, thanks.

I'd rave about your chip in my 88, but its been sitting in the garage so long due to this garbage weather that I'd forgotten what it feels like!

[Wil Ferch]

Bernie:
your suggestion for progrssive dyno runs makes sense..but I would guess this isn't done exactly this way due to the ~ $100/ run such tests cost. I count about 5-6 runs if done as you suggest...to "certify" mods that probably cost as much to begin with.
Even Bruce Anderson says he's willing to do some updated before/after chip testing...but not in "his" nickel !!!!
---Wil Ferch

[RickM]

Steve,

Thanks for the excellent overview on the motronic chip, how it works and the many variables to consider. Can you enlighten us in what changes need to be done to a 3.2 chip when going with forced induction?

(I know we discussed this a while ago...curious for an update)

[Lorenfb]

What's really been said?????? More B.S.

[Wavey]

Steve, thanks so much for finally presenting the complete picture. As I said elsewhere, I think the issues are that Loren's comments generally pertain to otherwise unmodified engines (i.e. exhaust), and that the adjustments he recommends are "old world" and fail to acknowledge the more accurate and intricate adjustments that can be made within the chip.

I'm on my 3rd or 4th version of Steve's chip (I guess I've been an unknowing but happy Beta tester), and waiting for the final version. The combination of exhaust mods and Steve's chip have transformed the car. It is clearly more powerful and responsive across the RPM range.

I'm still wondering where all the posts are from guys with performance chips who have detonated their engines due to preignition. Some of the posts in the last few weeks regarding this issue have mentioned having an Autothority (or whatever) chip in their car for 10 or 12 years, and those chips are more dangerous than Steve's.

Regarding performance data, my Carrera is getting a valve adjustment, plugs and wires right now, and when I get it done I will do a series of runs with a "7" chip and with Steve's latest chip, using a G-Tech. Not as good as dyno runs, but I think that 5-10 runs, made on the same day and averaged out, with both chips, should provide a reasonable comparison.

[Wil Ferch]

Geez, Loren, I dunno...what's been said?
How 'bout what the various Eprom #'s are and what they mean...?

Maybe some insight as to how a certain person approaches the problem?

Maybe sharing how one encounters certain pitfalls if you go too aggressive on timing or lack of fuel delivery on max demand...and what one does about it?

Or should we instead compare it to your thread where we identify the various DME box numbers over the years..somenthing that Chris Bennet ( both here and on his website) and the infamous SteveW have provided previously?

As I said in one of my previous posts, why can't you agree that:
--- Loren knows something and can share info
--- SteveW knows something and can share info
--- Chris Bennet knows something about DME boxes and can share info

And Loren...tell me (again) why this is not another case of the pot calling the kettle black? Did you yourself not say that counter-points should be substantiated on some objective and/or numerical-factual basis?? How does your own response ( "more BS" ) fare to that litmus-paper test???

Please, before you respond ( don't bother!)...at least *absorb* and consider these issues.

---Wil Ferch

[85Gold]

One comment that has not been addressed at this time is cost per HP gained. Getting increased HP out of a P-car is very expensive and if a $ 280.00 chip and premuffler get you 6+ HP increase that CHEAP HP.

Peter

[Wil Ferch]

And dyno runs...at least using the common inertial dyno's that do a "pull" at "foot-on-the-floor" 3000-6500 rpm in 3rd gear as a basis....will only indicate if the WOT ( Wide-open-throttle) map is providing increased hp over stock.

It (unfortunatley) won't tell you a thing about throttle "tip-in" response at part throttle...a feature that the Wong chip definately improves.

---Wil Ferch

[Lorenfb]

My thread was supported by published (Porsche & Bruce Anderson) and
empirical data; My test shows the BASIC differences - timing changes-
that GENERALLY account for MINOR performance gains from performance
chips and different STOCK DMEs.

This thread, though, has the typical hypebole, i.e. two pages of it, to overwhelm
the naive!



Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

[Wavey]

OK, now I'm laughing out loud, seriously. Loren, you are just unbelieveable. You could have ***** in your mouth and claim it was cake.

[krichard]

I'm really looking forward to getting one of your chips Steve. From everything I've read here, and all the positive reviews, it should be a nice improvement over stock.