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17 years and 17k posts...
 
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I have a set of Z-rated Dunlop Sport 9000's and I've run over two nails in one year. The manager at my local Discount Tire agreed that a patch or plug is not appropriate for a Z-rated tire that may be asked to perform up to it's full potential, so he replaced them. I recommend the road hazard warranty, since the tires aren't cheap! You could patch (plug) the tire and keep it for a spare, but I wouldn't drive on it. Just my .02 worth...

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Art Zasadny
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Old 01-29-2004, 06:48 AM
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I'd try to have the roofer pay for new tire(s).

I have seen the "cord" type plugs come loose on tires....it is a rare occurrence. I was always under the impression that the internal patch was the way to go for integrity.
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Last edited by RickM; 01-29-2004 at 07:21 AM..
Old 01-29-2004, 07:04 AM
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I'm with Art on this one. I don't think Z rated tires are Z rated once patched. Not to say a patch from the inside won't hold under normal driving but at Z rated speed you're producing quite a bit of heat and stress over a period of time. I don't think the merits of a patch versus replacement is something I'd want to have to discuss after the fact. Especially when you're saying someone's offering to replace the tire already. Not real hard math to figure in my book.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:52 AM
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Roofing nails cause a lot more worry than is necessary!

Have the tire removed and put a 1" patch on the nail hole ... you will never have a problem with it! I have run VR-rated tires at up to 150 mph with patches and none ever gave me a bit of problem!
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Old 01-29-2004, 08:11 AM
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NEVER run a plug! Tire guys first use a reamer, that tears up the steel belts, then they push the plug into the hole with a plug tool.

The best repair is to use a patch that is applied from the inside the tire. I used to teach shop proceedures at Super Shops back in the day and rope plugs voided any tire manufacturers warranty because of the additional damage done by the reamer.

Patches do hold up, even on Z rated tires. The surface is preped and rubber cement is applied prior to the patch being installed. I've never had a repair fail or ever heard of a patch failing. The only time you cannot patch a tire is when the puncture is on the sidewall of the tire. Then you're pretty much screwed unless you purchased a road-hazard warranty at the time you bought your tires, then the tire gets replaced (up to a certain tread thickness) Beyond that, the tire is prorated and you only pay for the amount of wear on the tire. Better than paying full price for a new one.

Former Michelin/BF Goodrich Factory Certified Technician
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Old 01-29-2004, 08:14 AM
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Re: Nail in tire, now what?

Quote:
Originally posted by dd74


P.S.: one way or the other, I'm saving the nail as I plan to put it through the roofer's palm in a partial crucifixion!

Thanks in advance.





the roofer and his crew...bastards.
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Last edited by GrindingGears; 01-29-2004 at 08:20 AM..
Old 01-29-2004, 08:14 AM
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This from the RMA (Rubber Manufacturers Association), who Goodyear refers to for safety info:

"Plugs vs. Patches
A PLUG BY ITSELF IS AN UNACCEPTABLE REPAIR. The repair material used-for example, a "combination patch and plug" repair -must seal the inner liner and fill the injury to be considered a permanent repair. Never use a tube in a tubeless tire as a substitute for a proper repair.

Individual tire manufacturers may differ on whether the speed category applies to speed-rated tires that have been repaired. Consult the tire manufacturer for recommendations."


From the http://www.1010tires.com/tiretech.asp:

"A puncture to any area of a tire's tread will affect performance and safety, and therefore must be immediately attended to through either replacement of the tire (spare or new tire) or a patch. Any patch that is applied to a tire must be applied to both the outer part of the tire (tread) and the inner part of the tire. The reason for this is that the rubber on each side is very different (inside is made of halobutyl rubber meant for holding air, while the outside is a harder durable rubber primarily designed for traction). A good tire repair can only be made if the tire is removed from the rim (wheel) and inspected carefully for any hidden damage. Only straight through holes, 3/16" or smaller diameter may be repaired, when no secondary damage has ocured."
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Old 01-29-2004, 08:38 AM
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HOLLYWOOD UPDATE: I got the tire patched, but have been advised that this is not a viable solution for track work. It might be fine for street driving - but that's subjective as to the "type" of street driving.

Patches on the track, I was told, heat and separate. The glue and wiring inside the patch do not adhere well, particularly to Z-rated tires, after considerable heat has been transferred.

One way or the other, this'll sideline me for a while from anything other than getting groceries and coming to work.

As for the roofers? They suddenly don't speak English...
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dd74

As for the roofers? They suddenly don't speak English...
Go to the building's management office. They'll give you the info.
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Old 01-29-2004, 01:00 PM
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Did the advice to not run the tire on the track come from a certain shop in N. Hollywood? If so, then their advice is what I would trust when it comes to putting a car on the track. Better safe than sorry I guess, even though I still donít think that you would ever have a problem w/ it unless there was more damage then I suspect.

So what kind of damage did it do? Was it a straight shot in the tread or did it do other damage in the process?

You know, this could be a good time to think about a set of track wheels and tires.
Old 01-29-2004, 02:11 PM
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Ryan - the nail was about an inch long and punctured in the middle of the tread. And yes, a certain shop in N. Hollywood advised me. I probably would not drive it on the track anyway.
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:24 PM
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Bummer! If Uncle Dave says, what can you do?

Now back to those track wheels...
Old 01-29-2004, 02:30 PM
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I can't believe you'd consider "patching" a $75 tire, that goes on the FRONT of your PORSCHE 911, that you RACE. I, for one, will be anxiously awaiting the Darwin Awards entry on this one.
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZOANAS
I can't believe you'd consider "patching" a $75 tire, that goes on the FRONT of your PORSCHE 911, that you RACE. I, for one, will be anxiously awaiting the Darwin Awards entry on this one.
First of all, I patched the tire because I needed to drive the car the next day (today), not because I had to take it to the track. It's called transportation, and called getting to work so I can make a check, and secondly, confront the roofers who dropped the nail that I ran over in the first place, and show them evidence of the incident. As for how you have become apprised of this post is for the fact that I thought it right to consult people on this board who had an opinion and who I thought would give constructive ideas, and not half-baked accusatory enlightenment such as yours.

Darwin Awards? Yes, the one for speaking out of line and without a clue goes to YOU!
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chibone_914
NEVER run a plug! Tire guys first use a reamer, that tears up the steel belts, then they push the plug into the hole with a plug tool.

The best repair is to use a patch that is applied from the inside the tire. I used to teach shop proceedures at Super Shops back in the day and rope plugs voided any tire manufacturers warranty because of the additional damage done by the reamer.

Patches do hold up, even on Z rated tires. The surface is preped and rubber cement is applied prior to the patch being installed. I've never had a repair fail or ever heard of a patch failing. The only time you cannot patch a tire is when the puncture is on the sidewall of the tire. Then you're pretty much screwed unless you purchased a road-hazard warranty at the time you bought your tires, then the tire gets replaced (up to a certain tread thickness) Beyond that, the tire is prorated and you only pay for the amount of wear on the tire. Better than paying full price for a new one.

Former Michelin/BF Goodrich Factory Certified Technician
If it is from a standard nail, and the hole is nearly invisible (no damage to the steel belts), I agree with the above statement 100%.

I would never plug a tire - ever.

I have run professionally patched tires to 150 mph - and never worried about it.
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Old 01-29-2004, 05:26 PM
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I have plugged Bobcat tires with pieces of bungee cord and had them last for weeks.
I have driven a Chevy truck with a vise grips clamped on the brakeline at one wheel so it wouldn't leak, out of necessity.
All those experiences, and many more, have cured me of driving a high speed, high performance car on anything but excellent tires, and proper safety equipment. Just for my own piece of mind.
Please excuse me while I fix my toilet tank....the rubber band broke!
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Old 01-29-2004, 05:55 PM
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Daffy wrote

Quote:
With that in mind, can someone on the board advise me if, given the pressures I put these tires under, it is safe to plug and use the tire for track work and canyon carving, or should I simply mount on a new tire. The building's owners have already agreed to pay for this. Also, if I do get a new tire, how will having a "newer" tire effect the other three tires and most importantly, the balance of the car.



I was simply responding to what I thought was a silly question at first. Then there seemed to be a chorus of folks who WOULD entertain running their Porsche at high speed on a patched tire. Anyone who would do that just because it "should be fine" ought to have their head examined. It's a $75 tire, man, why in the WORLD would you even consider using a patched one? To prove me wrong? To save $75?

Ridiculous
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Old 01-29-2004, 06:29 PM
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I've had defective tires from the factory before. In my opinion a patched tire with a proven record is safer than a brand new tire with possible manufacturing defects. There are risks in everything. Tire patches are among the lowest risks I can think of. I've never heard of a patch failing and even if it did all that would happen is the air would leak just like a new nail hole would. I have 2 race weekends on my patched tire.
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Old 01-29-2004, 09:07 PM
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To each his own, I suppose. I'd rather have the deep pockets of a manufacturer to go after than the Big O tire patch guy. Do the governing bodies of these autocrosses and racing events require any level of safety? Are they aware of patched tires? Or is it "enter at your own risk."?
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Old 01-30-2004, 01:24 PM
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i am really cheap. i have put patches on motorcycle tires, without problems. but that is crazy. tires, taken to be fixed by the pros are patched from the backside right? it really isnt a plug. i wouldnt use those self plug kits from the auto store, although they are pretty handy to have around for the temp fix just to get home. i dont think heat will separate a vulcanized patch.

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Old 01-30-2004, 01:42 PM
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