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Front mount or Carrera oil cooler?

I have a 72 911 with a 3.0 in it and need to get an oil cooler. I want to run the car on the track so I need something that can keep the temps down. Im unsure whether to go with the front mount or fender mount cooler. I heard the stock fender mounted carrera oil cooler will not get enough air to work correctly. Any truth to this?

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Old 01-29-2004, 06:10 PM
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A Carrera cooler should be fine, unless you're really pushing it.
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Old 01-29-2004, 06:28 PM
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I'm in a similar situation.... I have a 3.2 in a SC and only a loop. Some say a Carrera cooler will work but most are saying that I should go for the front mounted cooler since it will be a DE car. I do not want to do it twice so I'm leaning toward a RUF or RSR front bumper with a front mounted cooler.

As for price, I see little difference in a Carrera cooler vs. front although the front will require the added cost of a glass bumper and a some fabrication. (More if I hit Thom's curb!)

I'm still procrastinating over this.
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Old 01-29-2004, 06:37 PM
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If you're making a dedicated track car, then the center cooler is the ticket, but for the occasional DE, I don't the cost:benefit ratio is as favorable.
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Old 01-29-2004, 06:47 PM
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Steve,
I see you're in AZ. Isn't it kinda warm there in the summer? Can I say 104 deg. F at times when it's not real hot? :-)

Put a cooler in an RS/RSR-type front bumper. Street-driven 911s with a fender-mount cooler are marginal in cooler weather (<99 deg. F), even with a fan.

JMHO,
Sherwood
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:47 AM
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I put a carrera cooler in my car (dedicated track car). While I only have a warmed over 2.4L, it was too much for the stock oil cooler to handle when being pushed at the track. I was pushing up into the 230+ degree range. Now, it won't get over 200 degrees even on hot, humid days.

I considered a front mount as well, but there were a few drawbacks. The front mount is more likely to take on damage while at the track...either by rocks, etc being thrown up by cars ahead, or by an off track excursion.

On your '72, a carrera cooler will require removal of the battery box. The right front horn grill now directs air straight at my cooler.

If I was going to put a 3.6 in, I'd want the front mount just because it can control temps better and my understanding is that the 3.6 needs it (no oil cooler on the engine either).
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Old 01-30-2004, 04:49 AM
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A lot depends on whether you're stuck in traffic or not.
A front mount cooler exposes a lot of surface area ( and exposure to damage...right Thom? )....but does very little if you're not moving.
Maybe plumb up a Carrera cooler in the fender location with a fan...and parallel-plumb a front cooler later as track needs dictate...keeping two coolers in-play.
---Wil Ferch
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:18 AM
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I don't know if Jack will see this thread but I believe he has 2 Carrera type coolers, one in each fender well, in parallel.
This was to retain certain appearances.
I am looking at the same setup as my 2.7 does not have any cooler!. One the road it's fine but I would like to push her and take her on the track someday.
I am not keen on the appearance of the RS or RUF front valence.
rgds Ben.
PS - I am still trying to figure out whether to get a good used Carrera cooler or a new aftermarket one- any comments?
Rgds Ben
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 911pcars
Steve,
I see you're in AZ. Isn't it kinda warm there in the summer? Can I say 104 deg. F at times when it's not real hot? :-)

Put a cooler in an RS/RSR-type front bumper. Street-driven 911s with a fender-mount cooler are marginal in cooler weather (<99 deg. F), even with a fan.

JMHO,
Sherwood
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Sherwood you are correct it does get very hot here in AZ but I don't think I will want to be on the track when it's 100+deg outside. Im already going with an RS front so I think I will end up with the front mount.

Are there any front mount kits you or anyone else would recommend?
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Old 01-30-2004, 07:06 AM
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To show how it looks when done properly, here's a pic of what my mechanic did for my '72.

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Old 01-30-2004, 07:12 AM
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I think the carrera style cooler is actually better than front mount. It is larger and has better air flow around it. If you are going with front mount you better build a tunnel to funnel air through it and provide enough space behind it. Also, its right out there to get smashed if something should happen.
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Old 01-30-2004, 07:49 AM
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Unless you have a wheelwell shield as on Josh's car, fender mount is vulnerable to debris thrown by the wheels, this debris at best interferes w/ Dq and at worst subjects the cooler to punctures, some coolers are better suited to this site due to their more rugged construction.

As has been noted the best, from a cooling perspective, is the valance mount. there is absolutely no comparison between the cooling efficiency of a valance mount and fender mount due to the quantity of air each is going to process. As a result a small valance mount can easily replace a large fender mount.

The spoiler configuration of the pre'74 bumpers leaves very little room for a cooler so a relief apse must be let into the front of the tub to allow free egress of the air. This is not necessary w/ most late spoilers.

Again it's been mentioned but unless the car is moving a valance mount is no better than a fender mount so if traffic is a real concern a feder mount w/ fan and a valance mount can be used.

I have not found it necessary in normal traffic even on extremely hot days to have a fender mount on mine in addition to the valance mount.
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Old 01-30-2004, 08:47 AM
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Another thing to note about the valence mount -- it changes the airflow around your car and could cause the front end to get lighter at speed. All that air flows through it is directed down, underneath the car.
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:45 AM
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Not an issue for us mortals Josh
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:49 AM
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"Are there any front mount kits you or anyone else would recommend?"

Steve,
Not sure how much track time your car will see, but for a part-time track car, installing a cooler in the available space behind an RS front bumper should be fine. I use an Earls cooler and mount and -12 hose; others use a Mocal (Setrab). Mocal sells various kits; otherwise you'll need a mount, some metric-to-AN adapters, AN fittings and hose. This assumes you already have the factory or equivalent R-to-F external lines and thermostat already in place. Cooler space in front is tight but it works, even with minimal/no space for exit air. If it's on the track most of the time, if the ambient temps are high and/or your engine is larger than say 2.7, I would configure the front oil cooler to get maximum air - better to err on the safe side. In addition, the above front cooler may not be the optimum size for your particular set of operating conditions.

For more efficient air flow, some sheet metal work is required, perhaps something similar to Thom Fitzpatrick's (Widebody) or what others have done. This involves cutting out a section of the the front pan and grafting a curved piece of metal behind the cooler for increased exit air. I believe Dave at TRE sells the pre-formed piece. At the same time, this area can be enlarged to accomodate a larger cooler. Depending on the cooler inlet/outlet fittings, the hose(s) (use -16) can even be partially routed through the trunk to protect them.

While you're doing this, you might want to consider installing some through-the-trunk brake ducting using front bumper openings for inlet air. All this will cleanup the underside so there's less stuff to rub off on any off-track excursions.

As for protecting the cooler, some recent threads on front coolers describe various methods of protection with welded tubing/channel.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood
Old 01-30-2004, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jpinkert
Another thing to note about the valence mount -- it changes the airflow around your car and could cause the front end to get lighter at speed. All that air flows through it is directed down, underneath the car.
So what about the 911 race cars? This is pure speculation and irresponsible to mention until you have the facts.

The best cooling for his requirements (remember, he said track) is the front mount horizontal cooler from BAT or similar. That's what race cars use.

And the damage statements that people have been talking about are another heap. If you have an agricultural experience at the track you can damage much more than your cooler. The whole car is vulnerable and coolers, whether in the fender (debris) or in the valence (front end impacts) are both at risk. Go with what's best for your main investment (i.e. your engine) and your conditions (i.e. track or street or traffic).

You will need the following:

BAT Cooler kit ($900)
New fiberglass bumper ($400)
Trim, finish, paint and fit ($400)
New rear bumper to match front ($400)
Trim...you get the point. It's not cheap (heck what track stuff is?) but it's effective. My car didn't get hotter than 190 on the track in summer.

Tristan
Old 01-30-2004, 01:24 PM
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Josh -
Is that a Carrera cooler or aftermarket?
Any info on costing?
Thanks
Ben
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Old 01-30-2004, 01:59 PM
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IŽll go for a Elephant front mounted widemouth in my street/track car. I have a RUF front. Perhaps it will be a little much for a street car.

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Old 01-31-2004, 08:56 AM
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