3.6 rebuild - progress report
 

This past weekend my 3.6 engine rebuild project went from the stripped down short block

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1075790955.jpg

to something that finally looks like a 911 engine again:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1075791056.jpg

Here is the gathering of some of the numerous people (left to right Tyson Schmidt, Ryan Wiliams, Mike Zois, and Dan Byers) that went out of their way to help out with tools, knowledge and supported my along the way. I was in way over my head and would not have managed to get there without them.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1075791248.jpg

That's what this board is all about. Lot's of help and tremendous support from enthusiasts both online and in person. Once I get back from Boise this Friday it's final assembly time. I hope to have it running by the end of the weekend.

Ingo (currently in Boise)

Looks like fun. Well done guys.

nice house!

Ingo, have you posted the details of the rebuild before? Is it going back together as a stock 3.6 or are you changing P&C's, etc?

Nice job guys!

Ingo, why the rebuild? Thought you just swapped that in.

Ingo,

What's the story with this motor? I thought it only had 22k Miles or so on it? Also, do you have the belt minder hooked up? I junked mine when I went to the single pulley.

I am sure it will be really nice when your finished.

Todd, yes I use the belt minder. I made a little gizmo timer that operates the appropiate indicator light in the 993/964 gauges I have swapped in. In fact if you still have yours I would be interested in it because mine has a split in the wheel.

The motor had the well-known cylinder to head leak on all six barrels badly. I finally got tired of the oil burning up on my heat exchangers and decided to tear it down. My machinist Walt was baffeled when he found all six barrels beyond wear limits. Lot's of other oddities like a flat cam, broken valve springs, shot rockers, shot rod bearings, broken piston rings came up when I tore it down. Of course the exhaust guides where shot and the intake guides where not far from it. It's hard to tell what exactly happened to the motor in his previous life or how many miles were on it. Walt thinks it had been abused and ran with dirty oil.

I had Walt do the the head gasket update and all valve guides. I did nothing special performance wise since I don't want to embarras MikeZ even more :D when I step on it later. Just hotter cams and some safety upgrades (ARP rod bolts, 993 head studs). I hope it's going to be a reliable strong 3.6 when I am done.

Ingo,

PM me an address and I'll send the beltminder straight away. Bummer about the engine. I will NEVER buy a used engine again, unless I personally know the history. Buying used is a massive risk, once bitten....
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So is this engine seller going to blow you off? Or will he step forward and reimburse you for half of the rebuild costs.... Since it appears that he basically sold you junk. I would think he should if he ever expects to sell ANOTHER engine to any member of this BBS.

I had Walt do the the head gasket update and all valve guides. I did nothing special performance wise since I don't want to embarras MikeZ even more when I step on it later. Just hotter cams and some safety upgrades (ARP rod bolts, 993 head studs). I hope it's going to be a reliable strong 3.6 when I am done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Learn how to shift and spell and you'll be fine.....%^B

Raaaaruuuummpf!!!!!!!!

hallo
The Engine was from me , when it left here it had no signs of Oilleaks , good Compression /leakdown etc. After Ingo drove it for 5000 Miles he decided to take care of a minor oilleak . When he removed the Shroud he discovered The leak was on the upperside of 3 Cylinders . There was no way i could have seen that without taken the Engine apart .
It is hard to say if it was or not . I paid Ingo 900$ and replaced the 3 Cylinders/Pistons and the Camshaft . I know it is only half of the repairbill ,but we agreed on that because it is :
1. a used Engine ,12 years old
2. it is uncertain when the damage appeared
3 . after 5000 Miles and 1 year
4 . The Damage has nothing to do with Mileage ,one Side looked like new the other side looked bad ,i have no idea why neither had Walt or Ingo . The Car that Engine came from was a Convertible with Body Damage ,those Cars are usually not driven hard and it had no "sporty"
accessories .
@Todd
It is all a matter of Price ,you can buy a good used 964 Engine for 6000,
one with Headgaskets for 7000 , or a rebuild one for 10.000 . You are a little hasty with your Comment before knowing the Facts .
As you know i always stand behind the Engines i sell and my Word .
@Ingo Please clear this matter
harald

Mine also came from Europe(I believe from Harold also) I had a total rebuild planned as part of the process. Everything was nominal upon disassembly. It should have been fine w/o any additional work.

Harald has supplied a lot of 3.6's to guys on this board, with great feedback across the board. Selling used motors is not like selling new pieces off the shelf, and there will always be the potential for problems (that Harald would only be able to find by tearing down the motor before he shipped it).

I haven't talked to Ingo about this, but it sounds like Harald stood by his sale very admirably.

As a data point, my motor arrived as it was described, and has been running like a tank (in regular track and street use) since October of 2000.

Harald,
Maybe a few people have been lucky (like Jack... surprise) But your basically selling beat up POS engines to anyone you can sucker into buying one. My first engine was worn out JUNK which came from you, Kevin Stewarts engine appears to be junk, Ingo's was obviously junk.
<br>
Hasty, yes always hasty...

Jack,

You should run for office.... any office.... Mr. Diplomacy........

Come on Todd, you are being very antidotal, first Timmins, now Harald, we are talking about Used engines here. There is always a risk, and if you buy risky (anything used) then you’re willingly taking that risk.

The fact is that a lot more of the used engines that Harald sells have gone on to run many hard miles w/ out problems then the ones that have had problems. When I bought my engine I figured that I would run it until it needed a rebuild, and some day it will, then I would rebuild it.

I have been very happy w/ my engine, it’s a keeper. Harald & Ingo have found a middle road to repair Ingo’s engine and I think that says a lot about both of them.

Have you ever found a middle road w/ anybody?

Mine has been fine...but it was a US motor out of a tip....prolly driven by a blue hair in a leisure suit....least thats what I tell myself.

Well, I've been burned by buying a used motor before and the motor's condition rarely has anything to do with the seller's integrity. If you want it new with a warranty, buy a crated one from Porsche for $20k or whatever it costs. Otherwise, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. Harald has a pretty good rep. here and on Rennlist. So does the guy who sold me my used motor. He even reubuilt it himself and I spent time around his car before I got the engine. Embs never misses a chance to slam someone. I'm guessing his edited post was due to his briefly forgetting about his self-imposed pledge to stop bashing Dr. T. At least Ingo seems to made the best of it here, DIY'ing a rebuild and getting in some quality wrenching time with other Pelicanheads. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Now he knows it's done right. Harald, I'll buy a motor from you any day.

I too bought a used 993 engine from Harald for my track car. I've had no issues. Last year I did 17 track days. My wife also drives so the car does double duty. I have no oil leaks, and the car uses very little oil. I usually put in a quart after about 3 days of double duty. Pretty good compared to other people.

Pete

i have nothing to add, just was wondering where you get all the 3.6's (harold)? do you peddle any other motors?

cliff

todd
Again you dont know the facts . When i read that Kevin had a problem with the Motor I send him a mail and asked him what was wrong and
if i could help him . He replied and says ; I dont know if there is a Problem yet because it is to cold to work on the Car . The Problem with his wiring Harness was paid by me ,even so i had this Motor in a Car running ,this was a matter of the different wiring from the Conversion Kit Harness . If somebody buys a Engine from you ,with no garantee drives it 5 K miles hard ,than opens the Engine to find broken rings,broken Valvesprings,oval cylinders (all signs for overrev/overheating ).I bet you dont pay him a Dime . So please know the Facts before you attack me .
Harald

<br>
Richard:
That is about as untrue as it gets. I call a spade a spade and tell the truth all of the time, some people just have a hard time accepting it without the sugar coating.
<br>
Once again Richard, your pie hole has opened in a thread that it has no business in, have you purchased a 3.6 from Harald?
<br>
Why don't you stoop to the level of some of the idiots on this BBS and start a "What's Embs's Problem" post like some other Beavis did about Loren from Systems Consulting. Sad thing is, the goofy@ss moderators left the post open.
<br>
Like me or hate me, I don't give a damn. I'll always say what I want until I have no air left in my lungs.

Don't you mean 'cake hole'?

cake, pie, donut, etc. etc.

I hadn't heard the pie-hole term since the Sheriff Jack thread. LOL.

Todd
Have YOU bought a Engine from me ? I dont think so .
But you did send me a lot of Emails asking for help with different issues
and did I ?
Harald

Yeah I am sorry Harald, my engine just needed 10K or so and a case. Plus the problems a few other people have had are just minor little issues like head jobs and P&C's etc. I guess I have just blown this out of proportion....

ignore list...beauty

Todd
You know that i sold this Engine ,almost a year before you bought it to somebody else in the US . Than it was used on the Track and sold to you a year later ( in good running Condition afaik ).
Do i feel responsible : NO
If you had bought that Engine from me direct would i pay for the Damage when it is clear the Engine had a Problem which i didnt see :
YES .
Harald

Wow just stubled upon this, im famous, actualy Harald and I have had several issues to date and he has made good, its to cold here to work on the car, I have decided long ago that i wasnt gonna trash Harald on this board as long as he takes care of things, We have a major issue comming up, if you dont hear from me in the next 90 days on this you know he took care of it, as far as miles my 100 miles on the car with the motor in qualifies, Kevin

My engine is finally back together too. It was recased with a case Harald sold me which worked out great, I also balanced everything from clutch assembly to crank/rods and pistons. As this is the only way you can use a single pulley on a 964 engine. I also added raceware rod bolts and Euro RS Cams from WEBCAM and Aasco springs and titanium retainers.

I am using 993 heads (all rebuilt by Aasco) and injection/DME.

As for my engine - why the rebuild? I bought it rebuilt from someone in LA, with a repaired case. I took a chance because the price seemed great. The case repair started to leak oil so I decided to recase it. When the builder took it apart he found 3 broken head studs and the list goes on.... such as blocked oil gallies. So I am trying to look on the bright side, If I had run the engine as it was, it probably would have blown up. In which case I would need a whole new used unknown engine.

So I am out a few more thousand and have a known quantity - Hopefully.

Hallo
That rebuild Engine was not from me ,just the case to get the Engine
(from a US source ) running .
harald

That is true, Harald did help me wade through my first round of
3.6 crap via email, also sold me an O2 sensor, some HE's and a cat, all of which were perfect. I am not saying nor have I ever that you were an unhelpful person.
<br>
What I am saying is that I believe YOU have knowingly sold motors that had much more wear on them than was disclosed to the buyer. It is easy to hide behind the "it's a used motor" so anything could happen crap.
<br>
Without being able to verify mileage and/or the motors operating environment, no one can dispute anything.

todd
there are People that BELIEVE and GUESS and there are People that stand behind Things and proof it .
One thing is for sure ,we do not belong in the same Group .
Harald

Todd, you might want to consider taking a step back on this one and looking at what you're saying.

Harald didn't sell you a motor, but gave you free advice and sold you good parts. Am I right?

And the two people who had problems with their engines have both posted saying that he stood behind his product and helped make things right.

And then, from that, you're saying he knowingly sells bad motors?

Am I missing something, here?

So, what would a rebuild cost and how much time to complete? Those were conscerns when I bought my car. The engine source was unknown. I knew it was a possibility, and wouldn't have bought the car if I couldn't absorb the cost of a rebuild.

BTW, what would a rebuild cost on a 3.6?

My deal was a bit unique, The person who did my engine is a factory tech and race machanic who also builds his own race motors and cars.

He charged me 30 hours labor and I had another $3k in machine shop and parts. Figure $5k minimum. But I added new cams and did a extensive balancing which was about another $1200.

This is really a reference point, I talked to shops who deal with customers who supply blank checks and they said they get $10 - $12K for a 3.0 rebuild. :eek: On the other hand my engine was at the builders house for 7 months..... so there are trade-offs.

I was guessing @ $ 8k-$10k w/ a sport cam and valve spring upgrade package. Looks like your rebuild was within my budget. The 7 months would be winter months in IA. of course.

Also, did you notice a differnce w/ the new cams and balancing?

Gary

Harald has my endorsement as a guy who is fair and honest and goes out of his way to help. We in the USA are lucky to have a resource like him available in Europe. I have and would do more business with Harald Julicher without reservation.

My Motor is not back in the car yet. My car is having a cage installed this weekend and I will put it back together the following weekend.