Electronic Counter Measures (long)

[djmcmath]

At risk of re-igniting the horrible V-1 vs. Everybody Else holy war, I'm going to ask the dreaded "radar detector" question. I don't want to discuss whether or not it's ok to speed, or how fast is ok, or what the relative speed limit in an area ought to be. Obviously, the best protection is not to speed, and if you must speed, do so carefully while paying close attention to everything around you. But then, you should be paying close attention anway, right? As to the police who I know read this forum, please understand that I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, condone unsafe driving.

I'm building an ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) Suite for my Porsche. Most of my research comes from radartest.com, but there's a lot from a bunch of other random sites online. I'd appreciate anybody's feedback on these items, and if anybody can point out a hole in my defense, I'd be thrilled. Here's the plan: Escort SRX for radar and laser protection. Can't jam radar 'coz that's owned by the FCC, but laser is owned by somebody else, and not regulated, so it's actually legal to jam laser (still). The SRX looks like it comes with all the features of the 8500, plus the laser jamming capability, plus the hidden install. Why is hidden install important to me? I drive my car on a military base regularly, and they won't let me on with a blatent radar detector -- the windshield mount is so tacky, anyway. That and the fact that if I do get pulled over, having a visible radar detector is like asking for a ticket. So the centerpiece of the ECM suite is the SRX. However, that doesn't cover me against aircraft, or VASCAR equipped cars, or a number of other cases. Moreover, just having laser detection and a second or two worth of jamming may not do the job. There's a relatively new product I've heard of that you paint on to your headlights and license plate that filters 904+-33nm light -- exactly the frequency of police traffic laser. While it turns your headlights slightly bluish, it also reduces your laser return signature by something like 80% (claimed). I've done some research, and the technology has actually existed for quite some time, mostly with some kind of medical application, however. Anyhow, that should give me more than enough time to get down to speed, theoretically. Finally, to add the ultimate layer of protection, I'm planning on adding a Uniden BCT-8 to the mix. I know it's overkill, and it's large, but I'm all about being extra conservative. It looks like the BCT-8 is about the cheapest scanner available that has all the necessary features -- trunkable, highway patrol alerts, computer synching for updating frequencies regularly, etc.

So please, before I spend $1000 on this setup, any comments? Ideas for how to "hide" a BCT-8 in the cockpit somewhere? Any experience reports on the SRX or laser-filter paint? What weaknesses does this defense have -- I'd especially appreciate the comments from police officers on this one: "Buddy, you'll never escape my XXXX anti-speeder tool with that defense!"

Thanks in advance,

Dan

[RoninLB]

I have an obsolete BCT-7.. I was told last year to get the BCT-12.

[djmcmath]

In my reading, the BCT-8 is far more capable than the BCT-7/12. The 7 is, in fact, obsolete, and the 12 is its replacement. Both, however, seem a little inadequate. They're also windshield mounted, which is something I'm trying to avoid. Of course, the point of avoiding a windshield mount makes a bulky BCT-8 a bit hard to deal with, too... In your experience, has the BCT-7 been worth the money? For another $50, does it seem like a -8 would make more sense? Anybody?

Dan

[RoninLB]

I didn't know the BCT-7 was obsolete when I bought it.

I used the supplied antenna instead of a windshield mount.

does the BCT-8 have a PD radio alarm.. if they're close the alarm sounds.

[djmcmath]

Yes, the -8 has the highway patrol alert, plus a bunch of other stuff. Does the -7 support trunking? Where do you put it, and is it pretty well hidden? And the bottom line -- is it adequate to support your needs? Has it ever failed you?

Thanks,

Dan

[banjomike]

I don't recognize most of those model #s but if you're spending that much money on ECMs I would think that a scanner would be in the mix.

The ultimate ECM would have to be an EMP gun!

I also know of a person who subcontracted some coating (some exotic paint like coat) for one of the stealth aircraft. He told me once many years ago that he could do a car for about $10k. I don't know if the stealth coating would be tuned to the appropriate frequency for police radar. It would also leave you with a mad max flat black car.

[Schrup]

I don't trust radar detectors to much, last time I used one I got nailed by instant on. That being said, I wouldn't mind a little protection from the local motorcycle radar guns. I would assume the V1 would work for that. I decided to get set up for the track, so hopefully that will curb some of my aggresive street driving.

Dan, I will be curious how things shake out for you.

[djmcmath]

Mike -- you're absolutely right, a scanner is critical for making the defense complete. Do you have any experience with them?

As to the EMP gun ... I'd prefer to use HARM missiles, which lock on to the location of radar transmitters and blow them up. The newest updates allow it to track in on a location even if the radar isn't transmitting. If it can't find a radar, it just waits for a while -- it has like a 40 minute flight time. Unfortunately, there are some serious stowage and launch issues, not to mention the legalities of blowing up police officers, and totally not to mention the moral issues. Good thought, though.

I hunted down the info on the magic "laser stealth paint" -- it's called Laser Veil, and lives at laserveil.com. Ultimately, you don't need to paint the whole car, just the super-reflective spots. Granted, you won't completely eliminate reflected laser light, but combined with the laser jamming from the Escort unit, you should have enough warning to slow safely before a good reading can be obtained.

Thanks again for the inputs of wisdom into my plans,


Dan

[}{arlequin]

yeah keep us posted. I am interested in that stuff too. You still can't fall asleep at the wheel and not be "on the lookout" and can't ignore the time/location of where you're speeding, but anything that reduces the threat is quite useful.

I have an in depth article; it's not on radar detectors (it takes it one step further) it's on squad car detectors. I would much rather know there is police vehicle near by rather than anything else. The article has theories, ideas and applications. It really takes things to another level, though. It's way out in the grey area. Although any "ham radio" enthusiast/electrical person could probably know more about the reality of it.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by }{arlequin


I have an in depth article; it's not on radar detectors (it takes it one step further) it's on squad car detectors. I would much rather know there is police vehicle near by rather than anything else. The article has theories, ideas and applications. It really takes things to another level, though.

so what does the article say.. briefly ?

and I have thoughts on the LaserEcho install. It automatically shuts off after a few seconds so the PD don't know it's being jammed

[}{arlequin]

in the spirit of "free info for all"; it's been stored in my files for a while... I think I came across it WHILE brainstorming car LOCATORS. This one isn't about locators but rather jammers:

"A couple of people asked me about my Comm jammer, what it was, what it does, and why is it "pink". First it is a hybrid triband transmiter (VHFlo VHF Hi and UHF) combined with an optronics scout frequncy meter and a type II pulse noise generator. What is Does: If I am in an area that I know the frequency of the Local Law enforcement agencies...I set it up to Jam the the relay towers known as repeaters. Police units use one frequency to transmitt(TX) to the tower and another to receive (RX)When activated the unit detects near by signals and rolls the transmitter to the associated repeater freq. I have the CTSS tones loaded so it can hit the repeater with pulsed noise activateing it and deactivateing it. While this is going on the no one else can use it. SO If I have a cop rolling on my tail...I go master arm...the Jammer picks up the radio transmission going out from the police car..rolls to that frequency...locks up the repeater for a pre programed amount of time and then shut's off until the police car tries to transmit again. This can in itself usually force the cop to disengage depending on his dependancy on his radio. I can also set it up to just hammer the RX side by using the repeater offset and it will hammer away the RX frequancy so the Police unit can't hear any responses. In areas I don't know the repeater off sets (few and far between)I just go in to broad band jamming mode...I use off set noise jamming because it lets me run higher power with a limited system because I don't have to modulate voice I can usually over power most police units.
What it Dosen't do.....First attacking Cellphones is very difficult Digital cell phones are almost impossible for non military grade equipment to take out. Every Cop I know has a cell phone....the idea is that they don't ussally think about it until after the chase and if they do they still have the problem of the repeater bing locked up for that area...so the dispatcher would have to be able to call other units via cell phone and relay...not an ideal command and control situation. It has the abilty to attack Trunked systems but it dosen't work that well... esply in a town or area that the whole goverment from water works to dog cather use the same trunked system...I have "trunk following technolgy" that decodes the hop pattern but it isn't perfect. The system is also very limited against digital radios that some big cities use. I can intercept and decode the wireless computer system most police departments use, but with out a pass word and system routing info I can;t shut it down. Given time and inclination I'm sure it can be done...but I figure If I am bing chased the guy dosen't have time to type. Also If you are close to the realy tower, it dosen't work well and if they are a mile or two behind you and closer to the tower they may get through. The real big down sides are this....1) It can attck any and all signal..it dosen't know the difference between the cop chaseing you and the cop responding to a bank robbery. It also can in theroy lock out a fire department or EMS in a area that shares a freq or in a trunked system.
2) It is bulky takes up most of a small tank back and the required antenna's make you slightly conspicuous.
It also connsumes some serious power..a problem on the VFR at night.

3)It carries some nebulous legal consquences. The whole RF spectrum is a grey area that in legal therory is sole jusridiction of the Feds, but I'm sure the locals would have something to say over all I'm sure it would be an unpleasent experience.

Why is it pink? In the area in which I work we call differnt systems by color no matter what color they actully are. For example a active Jammer is a red box and a Passive detection system is white and datalink system is yellow etc....the unit I built does White and red functions so it is pink......stupid I know but if you are in say Denny's would you want some one saying "Hey dave how's you police Jammer comming along, you have it on the bike today?"
or "hey whats up with the pink box?"
Over all it has been a fun experimnet. It stared as an agument between a friend who is a motorcycle cop and me on whether or not the K1000 was agood bike for police work...I said they are too easy to out run, he said you can't out run motorola, and I said what if I took your radio away, he said oh yeah try it. So....I'm in the process of returning it to its orginal componets because I don't think the Germans would be real amused...plus I have no idea how there system works here yet and am too busy to really care. Hope that answers the questions"

[djmcmath]

Ronin -- looks like Lidatek's LaserEcho is a decent piece of gear, probably well thought out. The folks at radartest.com believe that the only way to get laser jamming right, BTW, is to use a pair of front mounted sensor/jammer units, each one roughly halfway between the headlights and the plate. The coverage provided by each unit is relatively small, apparently. Seems like the Escort defaults to jamming for a few seconds (while alarming) then shuts down, as well. Do you have a review of the LaserEcho? Any experience with it?

Dave -- I'd love to read your article. I've done some ham radio stuff, and I feel like I've really studied the living daylights out of this whole ECM issue. If you have an idea for ensuring detection of patrol vehicles (short of always flying with a spotter who's focused on listening to the scanner and carries a set of high-power binocs), I'd be pretty much ecstatic. Can you post a link?

Dan

[Superman]

Paul, the motorcycle guys generally use Laser, and they take no prisoners. You guys will be happy to hear that I don't have time for a long rant here, so here's the Readers' Digest version:

WSP troopers used to be the best, and perhaps they potentially still are. While my hat's off to them individually, WSP, the organization, had decided to place revenue ahead of motoring and public safety. Assisting motorists? You gotta be kiddin'. Creating a visible presence at appropriate times and locations to help protect against an unsafe condition? Yeah, right. These guys are focusing their formidable training on a single goal these days: Issuing citations. And it is easier to issue them to safe drivers committing technical violations, than to find and protect the public against actual unsafe situations. It would take too much time to find the unsafe drivers, and issue the citations to THEM.

If the WSP were still focused on safety, I'd feel their decisions are probably fair and professional. If they're going to be indiscriminately issuing technical citations just because they can, then they should expect people to use electronics to protect themselves against this random tax.

Sad. Very sad. Money over safety.

[djmcmath]

Dave -- good info. You're absolutely right about the legal consequences. I don't think there's really any grey area on it, though. If the FCC laws regulating use of that frequency doesn't cover it, it seems that most states specifically outlaw trasnmitting on frequencies used by police, law enforcement of any variety, public service, etc.

Dan

[Superman]

No, I do not. I have never owned a radar detector. I watch for brake lights, and I know where they like to hide along my commute. But it's a losing battle. Again, it has nothing to do with good judgment. It's a numbers game and since everyone on my freeway drives faster than the posted 60 mph limit, everyone is as good a target as everyone else. Tickets get written for 65 in a 60. You're going to have a hard time beating Laser, which is predominately what they use. You're going to have an even easier time beating the so-called Aggressive Driver Units. FYI, the number of Aggressive Driver Units essentially doubled last year. Also FYI, those "units" write an average of about 1.5 citations PER STOP. They are completely unmarked, with darkened glass.

[Bruce Huling]

My favorite "jammer technology" came in a Cartoon showing a 442 olds with a large dish on top and the driver telling the passenger "sure its ugly... but all the cops get are re-runs of mayberry rfd when they try to ping me for speeding"
har har
bh

[Jim Smolka]

Instead of Radar, or Jammers, I have been working on the development of CHARM (Combat Highway Anti Radar Missile). Designed to seek-out and lock onto the radar signal. As the missile is within 10ft of the cruiser, it then locks onto the heat of the motor and takes out the radiator (fail safe for air cooled 911’s) Should be available soon from your local P-Car Host.

[djmcmath]

x

[RoninLB]

I have a page scanned fron American Motorist Ass on jamming laser..

If you want a copy ?
gotta e-mail me then put laser in subject so I know what's happening.. it's about 650kb

[ZOA NOM]

For those of you who are on the "edge" of the law, you should be aware that there are very severe consequences for transmitting outside of the FCC rules. Most, if not all transmissions in most, if not all, metropolitan areas are recorded in one shape or another. All new generation Radars that the FAA uses to control aircraft are digitally recorded, and any interference they experience is recorded and forwarded to the FCC. You can be sure that you will be visited by Men in Black if your jamming is picked up in the slightest by FAA radar. Be very careful about homemade setups, there are lives at stake in the air.