A little OT but.... what do you guys think of Skip Barber?

[chrisp]

Is it worth it? How many of you have been? What do they do well/not so well? What do I get by going to a Russell/Bondurant/Daly/etc over Skip Barber?

I am trying to decide which school to go to and I have Skip Barber at the top of my list so far.

[stefang]

I can't give you a comparative analysis and I assume you're talking about the racing school, not the street car control clinics.

I did the 3 day racing school, and absolutely loved it. I thought it was well worth it. You'll really learn how to drive a car and driving an openwheeler is a whole different feeling from driving a sedan. You also learn how to race, which is not something you'll get from DE. They have great instructors and it's very well run.

My best memory from that is still going into Big Bend (Limerock) 3 wide during my first race. Yeeehaaawww!!

Stef

[jluetjen]

Been there -- Took the 3-Day Course. It's well worth the money if you want to learn how to go fast safely. We're not talking about just driving around the track, we are talking about taking a car and driving it fast enough to race. If you have any intention of racing, take Skip's course, or else Bonderants, Spennards, etc. Lapping days won't be enough preparation.

At the end of 3 days I was beat! But I had a really big smile on my face.

[89911]

I did the 3 day at Laguna 2 years ago. General thoughts:
-If I had to do it again, I would of "drove it like I stole it" and not think about damage, etc. The 3 day I did had an accident waiver that was covered under the price of admission. Not so with the 2 day and other lapping days. Another guy there that was a Mexican karting champ (doe's not use brakes!) cracked up his car twice. His penalty was being pushed to the front of the line to make up for lost track time.
-I wished they had more full laps of driving. You don't do this until the last half of the day.
-They definetely push beyond your comfort zone.
-It will make you a better driver all around

I've been kicking around doing the 2 day, but I'm wondering how much track time you'll get for $2500 and a $500 deposit on accident waivers. Something tells me not enough.

[DANNOV]

I did the 3 day Skip Barber racing school at Road America. It was on the short course which cut out corners 14 to 6. It was a great experience but I would recommend that you know how to heel and toe, and know how do a double clutch downshift before you get there. There were some in our class that didn't have those skills and they wasted a lot of valuable track time concentrating on learning the basics. The school is about learning how to drive fast; the heel and toe, downshifting and braking should second nature before you get there. Don't go to the school unprepared, because you won't experience the fun part of driving fast on a real race track in an open wheeled racing car. Incidently, those Skip barber formula Ford cars (powered by a Dodge 4 cylinder engine) seem to be about as fast at Road America as my old 1985 911 Carrera.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by DANNOV
I did the 3 day Skip Barber racing school at Road America. It was on the short course which cut out corners 14 to 6. It was a great experience but I would recommend that you know how to heel and toe, and know how do a double clutch downshift before you get there..

Since I have heard these terms, but have no idea exactly what they mean, could you please define them for me? Sorry for the hijack
Thanks!

[Zeke]

There has been quite a discussion or two on the subjects if you can find them. In a nutshell, heel and toe is braking and hitting the gas pedal at the same time by one of 2 methods. One is with your heel and the other is by rolling the right edge of yout foot over onto the gas while braking. You don't let the clutch out while downshifting until you've raised the rpm's to match the road speed.

Double clutch downshifting is old fashion and is how you get non synchro trannys into a lower gear w/o grinding. Many early British cars had non synchro first. I don't know why you need to know how to do this in a Formula Ford unless they don't have a synchro 1st. Hard to imagine. It's still good to know even if you only use it driving an old truck.

Oh, and I guess I didn't explain how the double clutch works. In between the gears while shifting, you let the clutch out in neutral and rev the engine, quickly push in the clutch, move the gear lever, rev it again if rpm's fell off and let the clutch out again hoping you've matched up engine, tranny and ground speeds. If you did, you won't feel a thing, no jerks, nothing. You still hear a few hot rodders blipping the gas between shifts to let us all know the are there. Comes from the old days of LaSalle gear boxes. Or old Italian or old........you get it.

[DANNOV]

[QU
Double clutch downshifting is old fashion and is how you get non synchro trannys into a lower gear w/o grinding. Many early British cars had non synchro first. I don't know why you need to know how to do this in a Formula Ford unless they don't have a synchro 1st. Hard to imagine. It's still good to know even if you only use it driving an old truck. [/B][/QUOTE]

When I did the Skip Barber school about 8 years ago the cars had "crash boxes", no syncro on any gear. You had to double clutch all downshifts. That may have since changed but given the engine location in those cars you can't use a normal stock Dodge syncro gearbox, you need the old Formula Ford gearbox which is behind the rear wheel centerline. Perhaps someone out there can can bring us up to date on the current Skip Barber cars. I was a bit surprised about the "crash box" when I got there but was able to handle it OK. However, some guys had never driven anything except a syncro box and they wasted some track time trying to master downshifts. Incidently, I always use double clutch downshifts - in my 911, Boxster S and Vette - on the street and on the track. It is much easier on the hardware and adds smoothness to your driving technique.

[jpachard]

I took the Skippy 3 day last winter and the transmissions are hewland. They have no syncros so you have to double clutch downshift all the way through. Upshifting is normal though...I hightly recommend the class..I had a fantastic time!

Cheers, James

[Por_sha911]

[SalazarS2K]

I did the class a year ago (Miami Homestead Speedway) and had such a good time with it. The instruction is top notch and you go through alot of good exercises to not only help you start a racing career, but driving much safer on the streets. To get the most out of the class, it would help if you have some autocross or track experience so you can fine tune your skills rather than learn them.
I found threshold braking to be the most invaluable skill after 3 days. Besides, think of it as an investment. It'll probably cost you at least $3k if you make a mistake at the track with the Porsche than spending it on some preventive insurance.


If you are really considering taking this class, I would highly recommend this book before going:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0837602262/qid=1077337689//ref=pd_ka_1/102-1023383-3664907?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


BTW, I enjoyed it so much I'm taking the class again (Advanced 2-day school) at VIR this April.

[fuelie600]

I attended the 3 day Daly school a couple of years ago. They have a STACK data aquisition systems in each car. It records various parameters like, MPH, RPM, G-loads, etc. After each run, they download your car and you can look a your performance on a laptop. The graphical output is cool, the sensors actually create a track map, and you can see the results graphically. They can overlay the instructor's performance (or your different laps) on your screen. It's very helpfull to compare braking points, turn in points, etc. You can really improve your times when you know where you are losing time to someone faster.

I would also repeat what others have said. Be mentally prepared before you go, (read books, watch tapes.) Get the damage waiver insurance, then push the car to its limit and beyond. I wasn't fully prepared, and I basically wasted the first day "getting my mind right!"

Be ready to fully explore the limits of a race car before you go, otherwise, you won't fully get your money's worth.

All an all, it was a blast.

P.S. I was at the school when Stallone was "learning to drive" for that joke of a movie. He trashed a car while we were there. He had a whole track to himself for several days at a time. An un-named person told me "he drives like rambo, no finese, just brute force!"