HELP! Shift rod seal removal taken turn for the worse!

[joehahn]

Warren, John, Wayne and anyone else that has emailed me in the past regarding this procedure I am in a big predicament!

I printed tech article and was following it closely. I gouged the old seal and tried to remove it with no luck. I used a dremel to grind an old screwdriver into the appropriate tool but the metallic part of the seal would not budge! I have pried out the majority of the actual seal (blue inner part and spring) but I am telling you the metal part will not budge.

What makes matters worse is that I have essentially shredded the metal perimeter of the old seal presumably compromising the integrity of it which will make it impossible to remove in one piece. What is going on here? It is as if the frickin seal has welded itself to the transmission case. Can ANYONE suggest a way to get this out? In a perfect world I would have realized what was happening and found SOME way to get liquid wrench etc, in there but I am past that (i think). It would be a shame to have to remove the engine/trans for a $5 part. I would rather part the frickin car out!

Very discouraged,

Joe 68L

[83 sc euro cab]

joe,

I had the exact same problem with that seal. oil leaking everywhere. Remarkbly enough, I took it down to the dealership and they said the total job is about 1 hr of labor and price for the seal.
(some other shops told me it was mandatory to remove the transmission, ridiculous.)

so I ended up paying about $109 dollars and they did it for me in 1 day. No leaks ever since (that was 30K miles ago)

bottom line is, sometimes if you shop around, you can find someone who can save you all the trouble and hassle of doing the work yourself.

but if you need to finish it yourself, just make sure the old seal is ALL gone and there are no bits and pieces left inside. also, the new seal that goes in has to be concentric to the shaft...did you remember to note the orientation of the coupling that you removed? you have to attach it the same way otherwise your shifting will change.

you may have to go through a couple seals before it goes in right. also it might be better to install with transmission fluid drained.
good luck with it.

[83 sc euro cab]

another note:

DO NOT REMOVE THE ENGINE/TRANSMISSION TO DO THIS.

Some shops will quote you for that, somethng ridiculous like 1300 bucks....that's robbery.

just dig at the plastic seal on the s/s shaft. it's ok if it breaks up into pieces. just make sure you get all the pieces out before installing the new seal.. also try spraying WD-40 on the old seal to soften it up so you can scrape it off the shaft.

[joehahn]

I really had trouble trying to get ANY of the metal out. I could actually get pieces of it with needle nose pliers and yanking didn't even work. I am sure I could pound a screw driver through it and then get it into little pieces but the metal to metal contact will NOT let go. Is there any way to string something up to soak it or would I be wasting my time?

The only reason I wont take to shop now (believe me I thought about it!) is they will now be working in the same tight cramped space with the same crappy ripped up seal that I am so what is the point. This sucks.

[83 sc euro cab]

well, one's thing for sure, to get the new one in, you have to get the old one completely out.

the metal part that wont come out that you're talking about is the small round spring inside the plastic seal, correct?

I would just keep scraping away to get it all out. dont be afraid to disintigrate it into many small parts. it's common from what i've heard.

[john walker's workshop]

have you tried to tap a sharp instrument between the steel shell and the aluminum? that will essentually make it looser. be careful not to gouge the aluminum.

[joehahn]

....no not the spring, I actually already got the spring and most of the plastic part out! The metal perimeter prtion is what I am referring to. The actual part that touches the case. It is as if it is chemically bonded with the case. No mere mortal can remove it. If I start wacking away at the pieces can't I damage the sealing surface of the case itself?

[83 sc euro cab]

the metal shaft is sealed to the transmission front cover casing?

I dont get it. all you should have to remove is the plastic seal and the spring.

once both of those are out, you can install the new one. i must be missing something here

[83 sc euro cab]

[imag]http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911_Parts/1978-83/3-2-1.JPG[/img]

item 26 is the seal (with spring inside)
this is all you have to remove....the
shaft should be sticking out from that front cover.
you have to slip the new seal over that shaft and push it into the hole on the fron cover of where the old one came from.

[83 sc euro cab]

[Jens Wendorff]

[This message has been edited by Jens Wendorff (edited 07-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jens Wendorff (edited 07-11-2001).]

[Jens Wendorff]

Now the pic worked.

What you sea is the typical seal.
There are two metallic parts and one rubber.
The rubber is the seal itself.
One metal part is the spring, the other one a stiffening profile.
What you see also is, that the metal stiffening profile is not seated directly onto the metal (in the housing), but there is a rubber layer (part of the seal)in between.

I guess what you extracted so far is most of the complete seal and the spring, but not the last part, being the stiffening profile and the last "layer" of the rubber.
I would try to heat it up with a heat gun (no torch, not too hot!), let it cool down and in this way try to detoriate the remaining rubber.

Hope this helps.
Jens

[83 sc euro cab]

that makes it clear now.

i didnt realize the seal had a metal stiffener inside of it.

where did you get the drawing?

[Jens Wendorff]

Well, in my old days I was supposed to be a mechanical engineer.
Now I am working in space but had an old book handy.

Glad if it helped.

Jens

[83 sc euro cab]

in my current days, i am a mechanical engineer (product development) consulting for medical device companies here in the area.

so I appreciate any technical drawings because i see them every day of my life.

you work in space?

[Jens Wendorff]

Currently trying to get the next big module finished for the Int. Space Station, which is NODE 2.
And you think P-cars are expensive... Haha...

Unfortunately, the more advanced the stuff is you are dealing with, the more time you loose. Therefore, I sometimes feel that my mechanical skills (hands on P-cars) are getting worse over the time...
But currently I am "building" a new battery ground strap for my P car out of a space approved piece of AWG4 wire. Whow, eh?

[joehahn]

...you guys scared the caca outta me! I thought I was shredding part of my case!!! I just called John Walker and he said I am doing it right so I feel better (what a frickin Dude he is, just picked up the phone and gave me advice for 10 mins.)

Anyway, back to the task at hand. HOW THE HECK DO I GET THESE METAL FRAGS OUTTA THERE!

[wckrause]

I did the same thing about 3 months ago, and had a difficult time like you. I quickly dug the spring and pieces of plastic out, but had a hell of a time getting the rest. All I can say is keep working at it, and try different shaped tools. I bought a pic set (kind of like large dental tools) from sears. Also try a small needle nose pliers to grab at what ever you can.



------------------
Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro

[Wayne 962]

Ok, sounds like you are doing it right - just becareful not to scrape the actual inside of the transmission case (the bore), otherwise you might scrape a groove in there that will leak.

Make sure that you are using the right tools. A right-angle hook and a hammer (hook the seal, and then hammer away towards the front of the car) might do you some good. The seal itself is a thin metal piece, and should easily deform if you tap the edge with your hammer and screwdriver. You can also undo your tranny mounts and drop the whole assembly down about 3-6 inches (takes about 20 minutes) to give you some more working room...

Deform the seal and then it should come out...

-Wayne

[joehahn]

...thanks Wayne. One note; please change the tech article and add, "1 out of 10 seals has been bonded to the case with kryptonite and will require an inordinate amount of swearing and sweat, etc. to remove it" I hope that works for me tonight. Thanks everybody (Bill, John) for the help. At least I know I am moving in the right direction.

Wayne, how do I lower the tranny without getting the **** rod caught in the tunnel? (looks too long)