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Thumbs up The Ultimate F/G panel fitting thread!

Since I am just getting started and many here have done it. I figured this would be good for the future generations of Pelicanheads.
I have started with the hood. After aligning the hood with the fender rails I had to trim the rear of the hood where it meets the cowel. I did this by removing the hood and using a very coarse half-round file. Once I got the hood to go on without interference I used a high speed air sander with a flexible sanding disc at 24 grit. With the grit side facing the F/G hood (Duh) I followed the contour of the cowel and created a perfectly contoured gap. Anything the was left I cleaned up with a Dremel. I still need to shim the hood up to line up with the cowl surface.

My questions are as follows:

Do I need to install the hood seal before I fit the fenders?

Any tips on Hood pin install?

What is the standard body panel gap for a 911?
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-09-2004, 09:30 AM
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Re: The Ultimate F/G panel fitting thread!

Quote:
Originally posted by thrown_hammer


Do I need to install the hood seal before I fit the fenders?

Any tips on Hood pin install?

What is the standard body panel gap for a 911?
Do not fit the seal before the fenders, it will make access to the bolts difficult and does nothing for you at this stage. you can lay the seal in place without adhesive to help adjusting the hinges, upward pressure by the seal will raise the hood at the hinges.

I assume you are asking about alignment of the hinges. This is trial and error. You may also use shims on the hinges to adust side to side.

Tip - DO NOT SLAM THE HOOD DOWN before it is adjusted. Lower it slowly and watch for interference, else you're likely to damage the glass.

You will need to get the fenders on before achieving final adjustment, both front to back and side to side.

The gap is around 3/16 inch. Bigger than you probably think. Don't cut it too close or you will have interference.

You may also need to shave some material off the sides to get a good gap.

You're not done yet. Fitting the hood is a back and forth process that takes time.
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Old 03-09-2004, 09:48 AM
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Thanks Chuck I need to open the gap a little then.
I am using Hood pins on the front of the hood instead of the hood latch. just looking for tips to locate where the holes need to be.

So are you saying i need to get the hood as close as I can and then mount the fenders and do all the final fitting?
Also not clear on how to shim the hinges side to side?
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-09-2004, 09:55 AM
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shims can be fit between the hinge and mounting boss in the trunk, if needed.
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Old 03-09-2004, 10:57 AM
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No shims needed on the front hinge mounting, on the hinge to body or hinge to hood. Porsche never used them on the front. the hood hinge is bolted with three bolts, and this has some pivot to the mounting, which affects the overall hieght of the pivot of the hinge which then affects the plane of the two bolts to the hood. two bolts to hood will give you fore/ aft , 3 bolts at the hinge give height, and will affect fore aft. simply pushing the hood with hinges bolted tight at lower 3 bolt mount and one bolt loose at the front and one loose at the rear of the hood to hinge bolt will skew the plane and give you some side to side. the fitment process on the hinge will also require attention to the hood shock, if you try to adjust the three bolts with out detaching the shock, you fight shock pressure. detach, adjust, reattach, check hood , repeat. In your case with a glass hood, you will find shock pressure can affect your hood, new shocks can have too much pressure, but just detaching them, affects the pressure on the hinge, which changes the pivot height of the hinge ever so slightly. Porsche used shims on rear decklids only, reason, the pivot of the hinge is in a fixed location, therefore the only adjustment is fore / aft and the side to side. Height can only be achieved with shimming on rear decklids. Once a rear decklid has been properly fitted, depending on year correctness, whether painted bolts, body color hinges and such, I remove the shouldered pivot bolts, and have a paint stand set to fit the pivot bolt location, and can then paint both sides of the lid and hinges at the same time, and reattach rear lid with no alignment problems as the pivot bolt does not change. Hoods, no way around it, wish P made a removable pivot bolt there too. Adding shims to the hood mean you did not spend the time to adjust the hinges, and then you have to mess with shim insertion post paint. Factory actually did the hood align, and then drilled a 1/8 locator hole thru the hinge and hood, post painting the hood was lightly bolted, pin aligned thru the 1/8, and tightened.
In fitting your frp hood, only look at the cowl/hood line to start, get close,do not grind yet( bodyshop/carpenter axiom cut it 3 times -still to short), attach fenders, check doors to fenders and work to hood lines. all the panels are floating and looking for square. If your doors are in a good location, work the fenders for door lines, then work for hood lines.
The difference of FRP parts vs steel is manufacturing tolererance and stability of product. OEM steel is a well built part, aftermarket FRP parts do not have quite,ahem, the same quality control. First the tooling can be bad fit to start, warped, shrunk, which will affect every part that comes out it, second the part can warp shrink due to early release of part from mold, post curing of resin, or the result of poor tooling to start. A hood consists of 2 parts bonded together, the overall thickness of the 2 parts bonded together is not the same as the steel hood, the frp will have to be thicker. this is the start of your hood alignment problems. Add FRP fenders/bumpers and now there are more inconsistencies to work in to the mix. Fenders/bumpers are likely to warp along any flat plane, horizontal plane across top of bumper or fender flange to hood. The fender flange to hood may need to be shimmed to make up for the warp, any hard right angle bend in FRP, due to shrinkage of resin, will tighten, and these are the warps you will see. In the case of the front fender, the fender flange tends to warp in to the wheel, and when tightened make for a tighter hood line. Couple that with the 3 seperate parts needed to make an FRP 911 fender, the multiple flange mold/assembly jig for that part, and you can see why aftmkt FRPdemand the extra time for fit/align. A 3.6 RS rear wing is 9 different molds, each part is made seperate, trimmed, reset in to the mold which is now used as an assembly jig utilizing outer bolted flanges on the molds, secondary bonded, seam filled , sanded, primed. Not a simple layup compared to a early S front spoiler. I could go for hours on chassis/cage alignment,bodypart fitment, FRP mold and part fabrication for the 911, its my day job,uhmm, life, not a monday AM QBack :>)
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Old 03-10-2004, 02:04 AM
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Damon. I am going to have to print that off to read it! Thanks for the info. Just for the record....after the last few late nights in the garage...I would HATE your job!
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-10-2004, 02:44 AM
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lawyer, banker(ryhmes with wanker) and other suit/tie combos=boring
Buffing out the last sand scratches from a bare metal race car build, loading it into the trailer and going to the track, to "coin" a phrase PRICELESS!!
I am finishing the last custom FRP part up for a Mazda protoge, heading to Sebring for World Challenge. Commisioned to fabricate a front spoiler/undertray/brake duct package, cool part. drop some pics in today. You know the P commercial that finds the 550 spyder under the cover? Thats what its like going to work every day!
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several 911 variants
Old 03-10-2004, 02:59 AM
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Last night I mounted the hood pins on the hood. I decided to put them where the rubber stoppers go. I marked the center of the boss under the hood and drilled with a 3/4" spade drill until I went thru and then just came thru the hood surface. Next i drilled from the top down to avoid any spintering. Next I shut the hood and used a centerpunch to mark the location on the cross section. I drilled that out with a 1/2" jobber drill. I put the pins in and shut the hood to find out how far to adjust the pins down. I measured from the bottom of the pin hole to the surface of the hood. Then I loosened the top nut up that amount. Then pushed the pin down to the top nut and tightened the bottom nut.
More later.
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-10-2004, 03:11 AM
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Just read thru your post. I had to grind some off the hood to cowl area just to get the hood to fit and open and close. I am not using any hood shocks. I am using hood pins instead of the latch assembly. So I will follow your advice and put the fenders on before I final fit the hood. BTW Good tip on the 1/8" pin alignment. I saw those on the hinges and now I know what they are for!
Thanks for your help.
Oh and Damon. If you had to do your job in my garage YOU WOULD hate your job!
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"

Last edited by thrown_hammer; 03-10-2004 at 03:25 AM..
Old 03-10-2004, 03:12 AM
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Here is a shot of the hood fitted with hood pins and the fender is roughed in. This weekend I will bolt it up and make final adjustments.


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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-11-2004, 02:36 AM
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Damn Shawn You are right! Who wired your shop, Lucas Prince O darkness?
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Sunapee NH
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Old 03-11-2004, 02:39 AM
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LOL! No that was at 11:00 PM last night. As I was shutting everything down I ran in and grabbed my camera.
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-11-2004, 02:47 AM
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Got the passenger side fender all bolted up. A couple little shortcuts.
The two cowl bolts that are up in the door area. Well I made those slots instead of holes. That way I can start the bolts with the fender off the car and drop the fender on for fitting. If I had to take those bolts out everytime I pulled the fender I will still be in the garage. They are impossible to reach with your fingers so starting the bolts at the funny angle you have to feed the socket in would be trying to say the least.
I also drilled the mounting holes for the verticals oversized and used fender wasahers. I got the door to fender lined up nicely. I added the hood seal and now the fender needs to come up about 1/8" to be flush. Once I do that I am ready to work the gaps in and start rough fitting the drivers side. No pics this time. It doesnt look much different than the pics of the fender just hanging there. More later.
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 03-15-2004, 08:01 AM
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Here are a couple shots of the fender on and all lined up. I got the door gap ready. Also a shot of the vertical inside the wheel well. I lined the fender up with the hood one bolt at a time working from the cowl to the front. Now we start the drivers side. I think I am a couple 8 hour days away from shooting primer!


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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"

Last edited by thrown_hammer; 03-16-2004 at 10:20 AM..
Old 03-16-2004, 10:17 AM
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Over the last couple days i have fitted both fenders and hood to the car and rough sanded the new peices with a DA sander and 80 grit paper. I used a high speed sander with two 24 grit wheels to establish the hood to cowl and fender to door gaps. I placed the hood seal in and latched the hoodpins down. Then i worked the fenders to hood line one bolt at a time from the cowl to the front of the car. Once this was done I removed the hood seal and used the high speed sander with one 24 grit wheel to establish the hood to fender gap with the grit side towards the hood. I drilled two locating holes thru the hinges into the hood for future reference and removed the hood. i then sanded it down with a DA sander and 220 grit paper. No pics cause you really cant see the progress in pics. More later.
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 04-02-2004, 05:19 AM
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Shawn,

Any chance you could snap a pic of your new compressor? I've been eyeing one at Lowes and I'm wondering if its the same one. If so I'd appreciate your opinion on it's performance.

Thanks.
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Old 04-02-2004, 05:46 AM
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Hopefully this link works.
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=18499-1126-VT6329
I love it. Best tool $$ I have spent thus far.
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"
Old 04-02-2004, 05:51 AM
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I got the Lowes home page...but is it the one for $597?

If so I asked the guys at Lowes if it was a two stage unit (I'm guessing no) and the said "uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm, yeah....uh, yeah sure it is"

It seems like a lot of compressor for the money.
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Old 04-02-2004, 06:23 AM
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I bought the one for $399. The 60 gallon, 7 HP one. I couldnt see spending the extra $200 for the HO unit. The $399 one runs all my sanders and paintgun just fine. I will post pics tomorrow of my set-up. I plumbed in a large dryer/filter. Also note that the compressor is 220V.
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Shawn French Honorary SOCG Member and Keeper of the Titanium Monkey
1983 911SC Targa Kelly Green
1961 VW Ragtop
2001 Xterra
1997 Jeep Wrangler "The Tick"

Last edited by thrown_hammer; 04-02-2004 at 06:33 AM..
Old 04-02-2004, 06:31 AM
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