3.2 Valve adjustment first time
 

Hello everyone!
this is my first post here. I have been reading for awhile but just never signed up. Bought the engine rebuilding and 101. Wyane these are the really masterpeices. I usually have one or the other in my hand for at least an hour a day and I haven't done one project yet. long story short, had a 89 coupe last year for about 6 months (fresh engine and tranny rebuild) that was hit by a 16 year old and totalled (he had his license for about 3 months before he hit me). Never got around to doing any of the projects. Bought an 86 targa last week and it needs a valve adjust. My friend tried a valve adjustment on his motorcyle years ago and keeps telling me its impossible to do the 911 myself. he says its a precision machine let a pro do it. I would like to one day be the "pro" that does it. I have read your book and the online tech article. I am just wondering if there are any first time stories that you guys would share with me. I guess im just looking for reassurance its not that big a deal. And I would love to spend that 1000 bucks that would go to the shop on more parts to do more things to the car.

thanks,
Frank

PS would anyone care to hear another AA horror story with the DR

It is really not a big deal, although the first time for anything is going to be a bit ... confusing.

1. Finding TDC is tough, but first line up TDC for 1 (or 4), then wiggel the rocker arm of 1 or 4, and whichever is a little lose, that will be the one to adjust your valves with, and then proceed from there).

2. The gap, 0.1mm is really hard to find the first time. I suggest that when you find the TDC of the valve you want to adjust, losen the adjustment screw a bit (or a lot) until you can insert the feeler gage in there, and then adjust it to spec, and tight. Horror stories abound about the guys who did not get it tight enough.

3. On the 86, removal of the AC compressor and swing it up over the fender resting on a big towel is a plus.

4. Removal of the air ducting on the left hand side is also a big plus.

5. Take this opportunity to remove all the plugs, inspect them, maybe replace them, and that also makes the turning over the enigne that much easier (people have said to not do this because things will fall inside the engnine, well, never happened to me).

6. Buy the valve adjustment kit with all the new nuts, and keep the old ones around for spares. The valve cover gasket with a silicon bead is better, especially the exhaust side.

With the oil change, spark plugs change, air filter change or cleaned, and a valve adjustment, it should take you 4 hours. More than that, and you are doing something wrong. Good luck.

And enlighten us with the AA story!

carbon bits can fall between the valve and seat if you remove the plugs before doing the adjustment. then the valve closes on the carbon bit, you adjust the valve, and when the engine starts and the carbon blows out, you have a tight valve clearance.
you will also need the proper feeler gauge holder, because the tip of the gauge must be at 90 degrees to get under the elephant foot adjuster. you can't do it with a straight gauge, it's too flexy. some you can see, some you can't, and have to just feel it in and out.

Buy extra blades for the tool, you will bend a few as you learn the technique to get the blade in.

As you will see the blade is paper thin and any imperfections in it will give a false reading. Ask me how I know.

Make sure the nuts and bolts that hold the blade to the tool are tight or they may come apart will you are in there. Ask me how I know.

Car should be cold, try to get it to the workspace the night before and let the oil drain overnight.

Get some ratcheting box wrenches for the tight spots.

Don't over tighten the lock nut. Just snug it down.

TAKE YOUR TIME AND CHECK YOUR WORK BEFORE YOU BUTTON IT BACK UP.

Do NOT be worried about doing it in 4 hours or less especially since it is your first time.

Expect it to take a day. If you know of someone that has a motor out of the car or a local shop that has an open motor it's not a bad idea to take a good look at it and try your hand at getting the gauge in. It's tough to visualize what you are trying to do and is easier to understand if you've tried it on a motor that is out of a car.

good luck
scott

If you have some other projects to do, dropping the engine makes a valve adj. a real cinch. I've done several now and not once with the engine in the car. Last week I did one in under 1 hour with the engine on a stand. There is a trick to getting the feel right. I can't imagine using that lame Porsche tool. The Island tool is THE one to use. Get stainless steel .004" stock and it won't break as much either.

it should take you 4 hours. More than that, and you are doing something wrong. Good luck.

It took me 1 month the first time. You can not fiinish the first valve adjustment in one afternoon. There are a lot of frustrations invoved. You will feel it's impossible to get those blades in the gap. There are just so many things you need to learn and get the feel for it. Why do you think the shop charge $500 for it? You need to back off, cool down and go back to it again. I would say second time will take less than 4 hours.

Frank:

Make sure you tighten down all the nuts on the adjustment screws to the proper torque value after you are done. That was a mistake I made. One came loose after about 20 minutes of driving and things got a little noisy. Thank God nothing bad happened!

I gotta say it is a pretty frustrating task trying to get the blade in. I had to back the valves way off to create a big gap. The whole process can easily take 4 hours the first time.

I am NOT advising that you try this, but I have a sneaking hunch that one could 0 the gap between the adjustment screw and valve, then back it off a smidge and pretty much be right on. This may be a question to ask John Walker or one of the other experts on the board.

Good luck.

Mike

Uh, I don't believe there is a German translation for "smidge". :(

How about "bissle", Schwabisch for "a little bit".

Considering the region that our lovely cars come from a bit of Schwabisch being spoken in the factory is not unlikely.

Scott

Scott, they way it would come out would be "ay bissel, geh?"

ROFL - Thats good!

Tim

Hello All !
it is my first time too, my engine was rebult two years ago , and this week i change oil and check for valve adjustement with the blade, all the valves is OK, i don't have to readjust all the clearance is fine,i don't touch to the lock nut... i feel all the six have the same gaps, i check two time for to be sure !
Ray

Actually "bissel" is more yiddish and "bissle" is more commonly Schwabisch. Although yiddish and Schwabisch are pretty close.

Scott

I think that Wavey or someone established that an eighth turn would be about spot on. I just put the Island tool in there, and tighten the ones I can't see until they hold the tool, then tighten the locknut. If the tool comes out without a good yank, its ok.

Tips for Valve Adjustment
 

My tips,

Take your time. You are not competing to be on a crew. That said, I'm going with leaving a day for your first valve job.

When adjusting your first valve take some time to play around with it to get the feel for how tight it needs to be. I found that I could pretty much get the correct gap by the feel of how tight I turned my screwdriver with the feeler in place. This helps alot when you get to the back of the engine where you can't see what you are doing.

I backed the nut off about a full rotation or two prior to inserting the blade. This made inserting much easier (especially on the first one, where you aren't sure). Once I got the blade in place I could tighten the screw down to the the point that I could tell it was just beginning to bind on the blade. From there I would move the blade in and out and make very minor adjustments as required.

Good luck,

Gordo

Thanks for everyone's reply. Well its convinced me to try it out. I just placed my first order with pelican last night. Got some electric seat switches and the bushing kit for the shifter stuff while the drivers seat is out. After I'm done with that little project i'll start on my major service.

i'll be doing:
oil
oil filter
airfilter
sparkplugs
ignition wires
fan belt
a/c belt
fuel filter
valve adjustment
hyperdrive motivator
distrib cap and rotor
brakepads front and rear
transmission fluid

have i missed anything? does the pelican parts major service kit include ignition wires? it says something about points but i dont know what that is. are there any tricks for the various things to replace? any tips on removing the old transmission fluid? yelcab said something about the silcon beaded gasket, is that in the service kit? i saw the gasket on pelican but didnt know if that was in the kit or not. I'm just going to take my time and really learn as much as i can the first time.

thanks for everything,
Frank

PS I'm working on my AA horror story, Where would be the best place to post the AA story?

Disconnect the battery first. You'll want to take the rear fuse box cover off to improve access and those fuses are hot all the time. You can short out the fuse with the top left valve cover very easily and fry wires (ask me how I know). Do a lower valve first you can actually see what your doing, then do the tops blind.

Thanks Hugh,
I ordered everything I needed from pelican today. two days ago i ordered two seat switches and some hood and rear deck shocks. My experince with pelican was awesome. Its so easy. today i ordered brake pads as well today, had a question , called and it was quick and painless. I'll never go anywhere else. I'll post how everything goes when I'm done.

thanks again everyone,
Frank

questions
 

ok, got everything going today to start the valve adjustment. first started draining the oil, removed the oil filter and behind it there is something i have a question about. what is this?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081027989.jpg

is there supposed to be a cap or something on here?

next, i am under the car and checking things out and it seems that i will need to remove the cat converter to gain enough access to torque the nuts back down on the drivers side lower valve cover. i don't see anything mentioned about this in 101 projects or the online valve adjustment tutorial. i shot some pics...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081028584.jpg
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081028679.jpg
is there anyway around not having to remove this, i could prob get the nuts off but getting a torque wrench in there with the socket on doesnt work.

thanks,
Frank

Yea, I think you will have to remove the (aftermarket) cat in order to gain access. It is probably a good thing though, since you will need as much room as possible so you don't have to do it by the brail metheod. Good luck and let us know how it goes, order your new gaskets and use new bolts.

Viru: If you ever need a reference, I have my engine out at the moment and I am in Canton, GA if you need to stop by and take a peek. Let me know :)

Thanks Keith,
I am actually about to do the actual valve adjustment. I spent the whole weekend getting it ready. This is the first mechanical thing ive done so im taking alot of time. the pain was the cat, that thing was rusted on there. I finally got it off this morning and got everything on top out of the way so now i can get to all the covers. im going to stop right now and spend the rest of the week doing the actual adjustment slowly. I might take friday off. i get home at 3 so i should have plenty of light to get it done. I tried to get everything i needed but i couldnt avoid hitting pepboys and sears a couple of times, and ill have to order more parts from pelican tonight for gaskets for the cat and stuff. am i crazy or should they add the little gaskets for the oil plug and oil tank plugs to the major service kits?

If i take a few days to do this do i need to keep the valve covers on while im not working on it to avoid getting anything in there? or will it be ok to leave them off? i am working in a carport (i wish i bought the house with the garage now). I can't tell all of you guys enough how much awesome you are for all the help. without you guys and the books and tutorials i would never have attempted to do any of this myself. I have to say after spending all weekend doing this i like tinkering with the 911 almost as much as driving it with the top off.

Keith let me know if you need any help with yours i'd love to learn some more. im in Lawrenceville.

now the pain is i have a torque wrench that i have to convert the values to get 4 and 6 ft-lbs. it only does in-lbs and newton meters. anyone know the conversion off the top of thier heads?

thanks again everyone,
Frank

4 ft lbs = 48 in lbs -- 6 ft lbs = 72 in lbs

Viru: I may take you up on that. I could probably use an extra hand (not to mention the company) putting this engine back in. I despise doing it myself. It seems to take twice as long when you only have one set of hands/eyes.

By the way, you would probably be ok with the covers off, but personally, I would take any chances. It doesnt take long to "snug them up"

Just let me know,

does anyone know the pelican part number for the cat bolts, i used a 13mm wrench and socket to get them off.

thanks,
Frank

1. What is this?
A: It is the top of the bracket that holds the fender extension in place. no cap needed. Clean it and leave it alone.

2. Remove the Cat?
A: I would try to leave it in first and see if you can get around it. Even the stock CAT did not allow much space there. That side of the engine is always cramped.

My valve job tips:

1) Find a great mechanic who does not price gouge his customers
2) Drive the car to his shop
3) He/she does the valve job
4) Pick up the car. Pay him/her $250
5) Repeat next year

If you haven't buttoned up the engine yet (now that it is monday)...
check, double-check, quadruple check before you do. I found that tightening the lock nut changed the valve gap. I did it my first time a month or so ago, and when I was done there was a slight clicking. It got a bit worse. When my car was in last week getting a new clutch the mechanic told me it was running rough (it was a bit) and so for the cost of 1 hour labor he re-adjusted them while the motor was out and my GOD it runs better now. Remember that a valve that is adjusted to loose is noisy, but a valve that is adjusted to tight will cause loss of power and that poor valve can even burn, which will result in the need for at least a top end rebuild!

Just when i thought it couldnt get any harder
 

ok now i have a problem,

i dont have any z1 mark, i do have notches and two of them are red, i had to replace the fan belt because the old one was too loose to turn the motor over (one little project out of the way) i tried turning it over and looking at the rockers and i see them moving but i cannot find which one is for tdc, my distributor looks different as well (compared to the valve adjustment tech article, it does look like there are markings on it, do i have a bastard part with no z1 or is this normal for an 86 911?

any ideas?

thanks
Frank

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081205242.jpg
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Don't see much different about your distributor.

There are normally 4 marks on the pulley, 3 equally spaced 120 degrees apart, and the fourth one very close to one of the 3.

On the set of 2 marks close together, the first one you see is the timing mark for your engine (say 5 degrees before top dead center, that is why it appears first), and the second one is the TDC Z1 mark. Line up the engine at the Z1 mark, grab a rocker (either 1 or 4) and rock it slightly, if it is lose at all, that is the one to adjust. Follow the firing order after that.

i dont have the z1 mark at all, thats what threw me, but i see what you are saying. lemme go try.

thanks
frank

ok got it all back together
 

ok after learning the firing order and figuring out the distrib i finally got comfortable and found TDC.

that was fun but quite a pain in the a$$. i got everything back together yesterday morning and i triple checked everything (did a major service with the valves). turned the key and it fired right up. the only thing im not happy with was the a/c belt tension. i dont think it looks just right. anyone have any tips on getting that belt just right?

The valves seemed easier to adjust by feel than trying to look. but at some angles it seemed that the feeler gauge had more free play than at others.

anybody know the best way to check for valve noise? the engine sounds fine but even before when the mechanic said they were noisy i couldnt really hear them. if anyone can describe noisy valves and the best place to put your ear that would be great. I thought i would just swing by the shop tomorrow and let them take a look at my work to make sure. i drove it for about 30 miles today and it seemed ok.

thanks for everyones input i couldn't have done this without all the support,
Frank