Griffiths' "Duehl-Kuehl" A/C Condenser -- Anyone tried it yet?

scottb · 03-25-2004, 10:40 AM

Griffiths is advertising this condenser:

It fits in front of the rear driver's side wheel. Has anyone tried it yet? Results? It seems very small, and I'm wondering if it adds any noticeable heat exchange and cooling.

Thanks, guys.

Jim Sims · 03-25-2004, 11:13 AM

I haven't tried it, but it looks to be bigger than it appears in the image posted (distorted and foreshortened?). It probably extends further back into cavity than it appears to do. It also appears to have a fan moving air over most of the condenser surface. The installation looks very easy to do. Given there is likely turbulence promoted by the rotating wheel assembly and air leaking upward from underneath car while moving and the fan available when the car is not moving heat is exchange could be very good. Couple the fan operation to a triplex pressure switch on the output of the compressor and it might be a very good solution. Down sides are damage from road debris throw by the wheel and perhaps reduced clearance to wheel. Jim

scottb · 03-25-2004, 11:17 AM

Jim: If you had to venture a guess, how do you think it's "plumbed?"

Scott

Jim Sims · 03-25-2004, 11:26 AM

One can see the line entering the top and then the line departing the bottom to go under the car. I would guess it is inserted in the high pressure line between the deck lid mounted condenser and the front condenser or the receiver/drier if the car doesn't have a front condenser. It may come with a new section of hose with fittings to run from the deck lid condenser and a new hose with fittings to run forward. If the existing hose running forward from the deck lid condenser is in good condition it could perhaps just be cut and new fittings installed in-situ. Compared to many other 911 retrofits this one looks to be very easy to do. Jim

scottb · 03-25-2004, 12:35 PM

I think you're correct....this doesn't look like a difficult install. How do you think the line from the existing decklid condenser is routed to the new wheelwhell condenser?

Jim Sims · 03-25-2004, 12:40 PM

Either they've punched a hole through the inner fender with a chassis punch and installed a rubber bushing or they just "flipped" the hose back up from underneath and routed it around the top of the inside fender space. I would tend to do the later taking care not to interfere with the wheel assembly. Jim

scottb · 03-25-2004, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Sims
they just "flipped" the hose back up from underneath and routed it around the top of the inside fender space. I would tend to do the later taking care not to interfere with the wheel assembly. Jim

That's what I would do. I wonder if they supply the hoses from the decklid condenser to the new unit, and from the new condenser to the receiver/drier...I'll e-mail Griffiths and post Charlie's comments.

m325ix · 03-25-2004, 12:59 PM

I have the whole system installed in my car, in fact, my car was the test bed for Griffith's project when he developed this system.
The AC works very nice, the crafstmanship is very good, I did not install anything, so I can't say how difficult it was

89turbocabmike · 03-25-2004, 01:02 PM

I just spoke with Charlie at Griffiths and he emphasized to me that this was designed as a supplemental condensor to their keuhl rear quarter-unit. It's about $650 with hoses depending on your current configuration. It's a $450 option if you purchase the Keuhl-unit which at $1661 comes with new hoses/o-rings/drier/clamps/hardware/instruction for the entire car. Their evaporator is a $399 option. Additional weight is about 10lbs.

Maybe if enough people were interested.......

scottb · 03-25-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89turbocabmike
I just spoke with Charlie at Griffiths and he emphasized to me that this was designed as a supplemental condensor to their keuhl rear quarter-unit.

But can it be used without the Kuehl condenser -- i.e., only with the factory condensers?

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by scottb
But can it be used without the Kuehl condenser -- i.e., only with the factory condensers?

I'm sure it could be use without the Kuehl condenser. Whether they will sell it separately is another question.

Jim is right. The hose from the left side of the tail condenser (high side) that runs to the front condenser is either replace with two new hose or the existing hose is cut and new fittings are installed to accomodate the new condenser.

89turbocabmike · 03-25-2004, 01:49 PM

I'm sure it can Scott, I couldn't get any dimensions out of him as Charlie was really trying to sell me the whole enchillada, which I can understand from a long-term cost/effort stand point, however it's a pretty big enchilada to eat at one sitting! It sounds like that for $650 he will provide the hoses to tie into your current system.
Are you currently running 2 condensors, the rear and the left fender unit? I could see this being a good add-on for you. I think I like the left-fender sent up with the duel-keuhl and my stock front/rear condensors. The original keuhl unit just sits in an area that is extremely hot on my car especially at low/no-speed.

scottb · 03-25-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89turbocabmike
Are you currently running 2 condensors, the rear and the left fender unit?

Actually, I have three condensers...the originals in the front and back, and I installed a third condenser (with fan) in the front left fender. The Duehl-Kuehl would be number four!

Quote:

Originally posted by 89turbocabmike
The original keuhl unit just sits in an area that is extremely hot on my car especially at low/no-speed.

That (along with cost) is why I opted to put my auxilary condenser/fan assembly in the front left fender.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

The setup is not inexpensive. They will reduce your price if you buy as a package deal. Supposedly will get vent output to around 34F. This is from my estimate using my existing compressor, evaporator and rear deck lid unit:

Here is what we would propose for your Mr. Ice Project on your 1974/3.0 911:

Main Proposal
Kuehl Condenser systems with full time blower fans (these run in series with your existing stock
rear condenser). One unit mounted behind the tire, one in front; driver's side rear fender.
This would be the minimum condenser upgrade we would suggest for your climate
zone.
Stone guard kits.
Mounting and electrical hardware.
Complete new barrier hose set for system integrity.
A high low pressure switch to help protect the system.
Receiver Drier (to be mounted in driver's side front fender)
R134 conversion oil and charge port adapters.
New orings for all system connections you will open in the process.
This package would offer you significant cooling performance using R134a refrigerant.
Total Main Proposal $1919.00

Options

The Kuehl Evaporator is designed for Behr brand evaporator boxes. On the VPC system you would have to determine
whether you have the earlier designed evaporator box, which is a sealed box, somewhat flat, laying in the evaporator tub
hole (under the front hood). The Behr type boxes are a bit more square, they have two air in takes, a somewhat triangular
inlet under the passg. foot board and a round hole that butts against the inlet for the driver's side. You can always take
a picture and email it us to confirm the style. In either event we have reconditioned Behr boxes or you can locate a good
used one. The Kuehl Evap with expansion valve is discounted from $599.00 to $399.00 when you buy it along with
the main proposal above.

Compressor; since we don't know the condition of your current compressor you have the option of replacing
it with our drop in Kuehl Sanden unit with clutch and adpater/slider plate. The Kuehl Sanden option is $399.00

If you have the main AC bracket system from the SC then you can simply bolt our unit on, however if you don't have the AC brackets you can option a new set with your order for $200.00 additional.

Other Comfort Options
The Kuehl Variable Speed Fan Control, gives you full variable fan speeds for the evaporator fan motor as opposed to having just the stock
3 fan speeds. Includes: the Kuehl Controller board, variable fan speed switch with knob, two phase indicator light that tells you when the
ac system is on and when the clutch is engaged. This unit is designed to work with the Behr evaporator box type system however
you can adapt it for most other systems. Add $299.00

Our Recommendations
1) Determine which style evaporator box you have.
2) Determine if you have a compressor and the condition of it, we don't recommend using the York.
3) Determine if you have a complete SC style compressor bracket system.

Planning the Work
Depending upon which package or options you choose, I would plan for 20-25 hours of work. A good weekend in your garage
or if weather permits working outside in the shade. If you are handy with a wrench then you can handle all the tasks of replacing and
installing Griffiths designed products. If your car has refrigerant in it, you'll want to have an ac service shop evacuate out the refrigerant.
After you complete the installation you'll want to have an experienced ac service technician evacuate, charge and test.

Tools you will need
A floor jack.
Two jack stands.
Standard inch and metric open end wrenches and sockets.
Pliers.
Wire cutters.
Screw drivers.
Drill.
Your typical tools.

Product Instructions & Support to Help You
Griffiths Kuehl products come with well detailed (text and graphics) installation instructions.
If you have a question you can always pick up the phone and give us a call, or drop us an email.
We are here to help you succeed and support you with your project.

89turbocabmike · 03-25-2004, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scottb
Actually, I have three condensers...the originals in the front and back, and I installed a third condenser (with fan) in the front left fender. The Duehl-Kuehl would be number four!

Ops, I mean't three. I had read about your installing the 993 fender-mount style. Is it not cool enough with those three? I had kind of hoped that just adding the 993 type in addition to my front and rear would be enough for SoCal coastal running(excluding the Valley!).

scottb · 03-25-2004, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89turbocabmike
I had kind of hoped that just adding the 993 type in addition to my front and rear would be enough for SoCal coastal running(excluding the Valley!).

Guess where I live -- THE VALLEY!!

I guess a/c is like the old saying...you can never be too rich or too thin. THE COLDER THE BETTER.

If you're going to be staying mostly along the coast in OC, I think the 993-type front fender condenser will probably be just fine.

89turbocabmike · 03-25-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scottb
Guess where I live -- THE VALLEY!!

LOL, the valley is what sparked my A/C upgrade frenzy! I drove from Santa Barbara to OC on Sunday and from Thousand Oaks to the 405 the temp just got HOT! Figured I better get this done and charged before OC starts getting warm

May be you need both Keuhl units

scottb · 03-25-2004, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89turbocabmike
May be you need both Keuhl units

The rear fender condenser, near the exhaust system, has always concerned me. That why I went with the front condenser. Another one, however, in front of the rear wheel, is intriguing.

PeteLech · 03-25-2004, 06:17 PM

My '85 would pull 35 degrees from the center vent on the freeway from the stock condensers when it had a full charge of freon. Of course, that was the problem, most of the time.

Do you have the supplemental bulkhead vent kit? You really need these to get adequate airflow to cool the car. The compressor has ample capacity.

89turbocabmike · 03-26-2004, 07:47 PM

Hey Scott, I can't stop obsessing on this A/C thing, now I'm obsessing on your a/c system!

I was thinking about your left fender set-up from iceac and wondering whether it would fit where the dual-keuhl goes? Or perhaps just a smaller condensor/fan set-up. Didn't you pay $300 for that front one? The dual-keuhl is $650. From looking closely at the pics I think he has it mounted using the torsion bar cover bolts. Other than that it is a similar set-up to your front. I'm kind of back-pedaling on doing the front fender-mount because I realize that at some time soon I'm going to want to add another oil-cooler in the left front fender. I'm thinking that a home-made dual-keuhl set-up might be for me. What do you think?