1971 911T purchase advice wanted

[asgi99]

I am talking to an owner of a 1971 911T. It looks in fair mechanical shape, no rust but needs a lot of work on the interior and is missing the top. The car has been garaged for 7 years - it is a project car and built from parts. I don't think it has been on the road since it was assembled years ago and given a new paint job (the owner did the paint job). What would be a good price to offer for such a vehicle? Are they very desirable? I have not had a mechanic look at it yet as I was thinking I could get it pretty cheap and it would give me something to do on the weekend. Is there a ballpark for something like this? my budget is very tight so unfortunately it is not an option to purchase a running vehicle. i can spend money and sweat over time however to fix up a vehicle.

Many Thanks

[Rot 911]

I wouldn't pay more than $3,000. A targa top is going to run you $800-$1000.

[donk]

You will spend much more to fix it up than you would if you bought one in good condidtion. Parts aren't cheap and they add up in a hurry. My car is pretty well sorted and I still have lots of stuff I want to do to it.

But... If you can do the work yourself, and can spread it out over some time, and (most importantly) you enjoy doing that sort of thing, then by all means go for it... if the price is right. But realize that in the long run, if you plan to get the car in tip top shape, you will probably end up spending more than if you just bought one that someone else had redone.

Definitely have a mechanic look at it. It could be better (or worse) than you think.

Good luck.

[larry47us]

Just look at two "small" numbers.

Paint job - $5,000 - $7,000
Full engine rebuild - $6,000 - $9,000

You need to add that to what you are spending upfront, since it isn't running, and is a "project car." And that is just the starting point.

Remember the old addage on 30 year old cars. There is rust, you just haven't found it yet.

larry

[chuckw951]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by larry47us
Just look at two "small" numbers.

Paint job - $5,000 - $7,000
Full engine rebuild - $6,000 - $9,000

You going to scare this fellow away with those numbers!

I don't disagree that you can pay those numbers to have those things done. I think it depends on how deep one wants to get into the project. We've all seen pictures of temporary garage paint booths and home motor rebuilds in process....all of which is facilitated by forums like this and books like wayne's rebuild book. True new parts are expensive but used stuff for 911s is plentiful and the parts are largely interchangable. Rust is a problem on the early cars but it does depend on how much and where it is so knowing that up front is a must. Anything is doable with time, money and a good set of tools. Couple hundred bucks a month for a couple of years and you could end up with a nice car. And rescuing an early 911 is rewarding and admirable in my book.

[larry47us]

Chuck,

You're right, there are certainly a lot of cars on this board that are being worked on slowly, a few bucks at a time, using used parts, in the evening hours, by inexperienced people.

But I see a big caution here when someone tells us that it

needs a lot of work on the interior and is missing the top. The car has been garaged for 7 years - it is a project car and built from parts. I don't think it has been on the road since it was assembled years ago

I am having a solid 73E rebuilt for me, and am still waiting for the final "surprises." I think that it is as important to tell our new friend the risks that he is facing - honestly.

There is a difference between a car that is "original," isn't running and needs some work and a car built up from "parts" that isn't running. Gee, does it have brakes? Does it have a fuel system? Does it have an oil system? I don't pretend to be an expert by any sense, but I see big danger signals here, and I just want him to go in with his eyes open. I don't even know if a PPI is going to tell him enough on this project car. If he spends $2K for it, and then doesn't worry about condition of anything that's a lot different than spending $8k - $10K and expecting to get it on the road in a year and for small dollars.

Just my $.02

larry

[chuckw951]

Larry,

All good points. Depends on what is really there. Best bet would be to find someone that knows these cars and can help educate about what would be involved. Running a new fuel system or oil system or rewiring the car would be bad....very...very...bad.

[asgi99]

Thanks for all the responses, most helpful. here's some more history. the person who built the car is a friend of my father in laws. he is an experienced amateur mechanic - he built a cobra replica from scratch. he rebuilt the porsche from original parts and painted it for his friend. I approached his friend to see if he was interested in selling the car. He got most way through the rebuild - the engine runs well and the mechanics are basically sound (although I am not sure if it has had a compression test recently). it needs front and back lights hooked up (if these are fixed i could probably take it on the road), as well as new oil sender, new tires (its been sitting the garage for 7 years), wipers, interior door panels, rear window with defroster was installed incorrectly cutting the connection, complete new roof, new batteries, some very minor welding where one of the batteries leaked in the trunk, radio, probably carpets, drivers seat moves (I believe it just needs to be bolted to the bracket - this is not a rust problem), arial, interior handles, badges and i would guess some belt/electrics replacement.

i realize that this could be a very expensive proposition. however, i have a window of opportunity to get this porsche into my garage before my wife comes to her senses (as long as i can get it for a reasonable price)

[Dantilla]

Only you, by meeting the owner in person, can have a feel for how much the owner either loves the car and thinks it's worth an unrealistic amount, or if he wants the "junk" out of his garage. If you asked to buy the car, there is less "wiggle room" than if the owner suggests a sale. Whoever is more motovated for the transaction is in the weaker bargaining position.

I guess all that is just a disclaimer to say it's hard to judge the value of a car I haven't seen.

[Cornpanzer]

It would probably help if you can get some detailed photos. Its amazing the small imperfections these highly critical enthusiasts can find when challanged to out-do each other
Seriously tho, if you can post some dig photos it would help the more knowledgeable people on this board tell you how to progress

[wrongwaywayne]

Buying these cars is the cheap part. Keeping them on the road and running well is what costs the money. This fixer uper will probably cost you twice as much in the end as a similar one in good running order. Storage is real hard on engines.

[aigel]

I'd skip this one, save some money and buy one that's done. You will still spend enough time with it, upgrading and fixing things along the way. Does it have to be an early car? The T stands for turd. It isn't very fast, let me tell you. 125 hp? Something like that.

For example, an SC targa can be had for 10k in nice running condition with about 180hp and still enough things to fix on your weekends. Driving is fun too, by the way.

Somone please check the latest excellence magazine and give us the value for a poor / good / excellent example for a 71 T Targa. i bet a good one is around 10k. You will never get this one back for that amount, even if you start with a 1k "investment".

George

[larry47us]

I have to agree with some of what George said. Don't buy a car because you happened to bump into one. First decide what car you want to buy and why. Will it be a daily driver? Are you in love with the early cars? Do you want to do a lot of work on it yourself?

Then read this board and the early911S registry board, and find out all of the pitfalls that everyone else has run into. And there are lots. Then start looking for the car, but don't be lulled into a love affair because of what the Prior Owner said.

Have someone REALLY knowledgeable do a PrePurchase Insprection, and then make some hard decisions based on that. Be prepared to WALK AWAY - FAST if the PPI looks bad. You can throw huge amounts of money into these cars. Look for the number of cars that are sold for $15 - 25K that someone invested $30 - $40K into. There is a reason for that. Any money you put into a car fixing it is only good for 50 cents on the dollar at sale time.

You are truly better off finding a car that needs little work. Don't worry, there is always plenty of stuff to do.

larry

[HarryD]

Originally posted by asgi99
Thanks for all the responses, most helpful. here's some more history. the person who built the car is a friend of my father in laws. he is an experienced amateur mechanic - he built a cobra replica from scratch.

Thats Nice but a corba is not a Porsche.

[QUOTE] he rebuilt the porsche from original parts and painted it for his friend. I approached his friend to see if he was interested in selling the car. He got most way through the rebuild - the engine runs well and the mechanics are basically sound (although I am not sure if it has had a compression test recently).[QUOTE]

This is a good start but you need to verify that all is well mechanically. Heaving some aribitray numbers

it needs front and back lights hooked up (if these are fixed i could probably take it on the road),

figure $100-200, unless the whole harness is shot then figure $500+

as well as new oil sender

$100

new tires (its been sitting the garage for 7 years),

$300+

wipers

blades and arms? Does the motor work? $25-300

interior door panels,

$500

rear window with defroster was installed incorrectly cutting the connection,

$25-500 depending on harness issues

complete new roof

$1,000

new batteries

$150

some very minor welding where one of the batteries leaked in the trunk

Cough.... $1-2,000 after you find the need to replace the front suspension pan.

radio,

$100-600

probably carpets,

$300-700

drivers seat moves (I believe it just needs to be bolted to the bracket - this is not a rust problem), arial, interior handles, badges

$700

and i would guess some belt/electrics replacement

Not a clue what this is but say $1,000

i realize that this could be a very expensive proposition. however, i have a window of opportunity to get this porsche into my garage before my wife comes to her senses (as long as i can get it for a reasonable price)

You said it brother..
Based on my Wild A$$ guesses above, you would have to spend $4,600-7,650 to get this guy running. when you are done, you will have a "heinz 57" car that will be fun to drive, but it's value will always be doubtful due to its "spotted" history.

A '70-73 T in good condition can be got for around $8-10,000.

Unless you really want to do a resotration, and pay less than $1,000, I would stay away.

[asgi99]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to go over the car again myself to get more deteail on all the issues. If things look better than expected I will pay the money for a PPI to see what turns up. The car has been in California for its whole life and the current owner had it since 76. He paid to have it repainted about 8 years ago and some rust damage repaired. It had its engine rebuilt in 1990. It was almost in running condition a few years ago - it just needed stuff hooked up to get in on the road. although of course since it was never put on the road there may be a host of issues there.

can anyone recommend how I could go about getting a PPI? The car is garaged in Sacramento California. Additionally, what would I expect to pay for a PPI?

if i don't get this vehicle i will try and find another one so this is at least a good learning curve for me.

all the advice everyone has offered is most welcome, thanks

Ash

[asgi99]

Quick question for Harry D. Do your estimates assume all the work done by me or a professional job?

[72doug2,2S]

I had a PPI on my 72' T in 2001 for $150.00. It was not much more than a compression test and confirmation of a solid low rust car. It revealed a leaky 5th cylindar so I turned down the $6,500 asking price.

A year later I bought it for $5,500. I probably shouldn't have, but it worked out OK. I had a $3,000 top end rebuild which revealed a broken head gasket $4.50 (I replaced just about everything while I was there. And I had a local votech paint it for $1,000. Total $9,500. It might fetch that, I said might.

She's a beautiful car now and it's mine. I'd like another 72', but if I did it all over again I would have found a better example of this car. On the other hand, I don't think I have the patience. These early cars are getting harder to find.

BTW the early 911 cars are my favorite, I turned down a 83' SC for the 72'. In fact, I'd love to have a 356. Such great personality.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by asgi99
Quick question for Harry D. Do your estimates assume all the work done by me or a professional job?

I figure most work by you or a low cost helper of some sort. Bear in mind I did not look up prices but just sort of stared at the the wall.

[asgi99]

Would anyone recommend running a compression test myself? I found this at sears.com,

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00947089000

[asgi99]

Originally posted by HarryD
I figure most work by you or a low cost helper of some sort. Bear in mind I did not look up prices but just sort of stared at the the wall.

Thanks. This is very helpful.