Help! Polybronze or Polygraphite

iolguy · 05-04-2004, 04:50 AM

I am restoring my 73.5 T and will be changing out all the suspension bushings. My question to the Pelicanites is whether I should go with Weltmeister Polygraphite as in Pelican Parts or the Polybronze and Monoball set-up from Elephant Racing. The difference in cost is about $800. That is a substantial difference for what is to be a fun street driven car. I have driven a couple of 911Ss recently and the suspension compliance was pretty poor but these were both on old bushings. Therefore, I have no frame of reference as to whether the smooth acting Polybronze would be worth the extra expense. I would go for the extra expense if it really made a lot of difference in driving dynamics. Keep in mind this is a Targa so if the Polybronze bushings eliminate all suspension compliance then the car itself may start twisting more than Porsche intended.

Thanks for the input guys!

Jeroen · 05-04-2004, 06:25 AM

The polybronze bushings are very nice. And instead of eliminating suspsension compliance (as you call it) they actually improve it.

Both stock rubber and polygraph. bushings will bind and work AGAINST your suspension moving. The polybronze bushings won't

I'm sure others will chime in with their $0.02

Cheers,

Jeroen

Jdub · 05-04-2004, 06:28 AM

I would recommend the "street hardness" poly bushings instead of the polygraphites. Tyson or Superman can tell you more about these.

If you are performing the work yourself you will save time and hassle going with Chuck's setup, plus it may factor in should you sell the car.

They are very nice from what I hear and it was only the money factor that kept me from using them. I went with the street poly bushings in the front and the Neatrix bushings in the back. I also zerk'd the front bushings.

John

addictionMS · addictionMS's Garage

I think the answer is simple, you get what you pay for, polybronze are much nicer, and will work better, however, polygraphite will work fine as well, they have been around for years and will continue to be around.

I would suggest you take a look and the effort to replace, and you over all budget and balance the two, would be a bad decision to spend all you money on bushings. However they are hard to replace in the rear and if you can afford it, and still upgrade torsion bars, shocks, and sway bars, it might be worth it.

The fronts are relatively easy to change so you might consider the polygraphite there to save some bucks knowing you can come back and swap if so inclined

Jim

Zeke · 05-04-2004, 08:42 AM

Elephant's bushings are excellent in design and quality. Pelican can sell you either product. Elephant's are lubable and the ultimate. There is a needle bearing setup offered as well on the market. If you choose the plastic, you can modify them to accept post lubrication. If you are a consumate DIYer, the plastic can save you money, but not any time as they take some work to dial them in. If time is money, then Elephant's aren't that expensive.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 05-04-2004, 08:53 AM

You must get the Elephant Racing polybronze. there really is no other choice. They are in the 84 (love them) and a set just went into the track car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/160261-project-73-911-r-rs-week-6-a.html#post1284509

dd74 · 05-04-2004, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeke
...you can modify them to accept post lubrication...

Milt: How does one do that?

iolguy · 05-04-2004, 09:23 AM

Thanks for the input guys. Once I finish welding in my floorpan I need to get the suspension back on so these are the first things to add. For sure I will do the monoball and polybronze in back. I can do as suggested and go with the polygraphite in front until later date or just do it now. I am doing all the work myself so if the polybronze's are easier that is nice!

CHILI · CHILI's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dd74
Milt: How does one do that?

Add a grove (channel) in the inside of the bushing and then add a zerk. The trick is to make sure the zerk is in a protected area so it doesn't get knocked off by road debris.

I've never done it, but I've seen it done by my mechanic.

dd74 · 05-04-2004, 09:31 AM

I take offense, sir, to you calling me a "jerk."

Oh, "zerk."

Okay, what's a zerk? Is it like a...um...nipple or something?

Jdub · 05-04-2004, 02:24 PM

Lots of information on this using the Search mechanism. Chuck, aka Clark Griswald, is the guy you want to search on. Copious pics and details on adding the zerks to both ends of the A-arms. Highly recommended and be sure to put them in so they won't scrape.

John

ludovicbreger · 05-04-2004, 06:44 PM

Milt:

What's the deal with the needle bearing bushings? My understanding is that they cost about the same as the polybronze but don't need to be lubricated and don't gather dirt.

Ludovic

Schrup · Schrup's Garage

If moneys not an issue then I would do the polybronze. I was on a budget & installed polygraphite & they feel fine. They don't prohibite the movement of the suspension at all & in no way impede corner balancing. I have a thousand miles since I rebuilt my suspension with no noises. I did install the zerks, but the manufacturer said it wasn't neccesary. I didn't shave or trim anything off the bushings at all & they fit fine. Good Luck

Randy Webb · 05-05-2004, 12:27 PM

BTW, Zerks are Zerk fittings -- the metal nipple looking things we used to have to lube with a grease gun decades ago.

MotoSook · 01:00 PM

I've got poly-graphites on my car and the ride is just fine. There are so manythings that can affect your ride quality. Keep in mind folks that the majority of feedback for any one product (type) has been folks that replaced their 20+ year old rubber bushings! No sheet! the ride improved.

From a recent GruppeB rant:

Getting the poly-graphite to fit is a piece of cake. You will never be able to get the bushing to have a perfect bore after you fit the bushings in the spring plate-plate (huh?). Not without a mill. With the bushing in the plate, you'll have to get creative to get a perfect bore in the bushing on a lathe, hardly worth it.

I got the bushing and t-bar holder end to snug up without binding and that's it! The bore is not "perfect" (good luck proving it!), but unless you turn the end of the t-bar holder too, a perfect bore bushing will not provide full benefit.

Think about this guys...the poly bushing will deform some what, just not as much as the rubber ones. The t-bar end and the bushing will eventually "seat" to each other. Some things are an over kill in the 911 world, and if you can scientifically prove that there is an appreciate difference (and put a dollar value to it!), I'll buy you lunch!

How much stiction is too much? Crap the wheel has to move up and down with the spring rate and shock anyhow. When you bolt it all together will that little resistance you experience while the car is on the lift, w/o the t-bar and shock, make a major difference? I doubt that most of us (myself including) will notice the difference of any bushing type when installed in the same car for a back to back comparison. Everyone raves about the "improvement" when they change bushings...all types. BUT! What did they do?! The freakin went from worn deformed *****ty bushings to something that is NEW!

No *****! If I put the flat spotted tires I have in my backyard holding a place in the dirt for a future flower pot on my car, and go for a drive, I'd think it was a poor ride. Then when I put a cheapo PepBoyz Futura hard arse 200,000-mile tire on my car, I bet it would be a fantastic improvement.

[...]If you are on an unlimited budget, then by all means, buy what you want and buy the most expensive parts for your car if you want, but when you go out for the test drive, remember to quantify the fix compared to something else...don't blindly drool over yourself.
[...]