Rust on my faux "stainless" Danske !!!??

[rdane]

Roadkill view of the details from the under side of my car today.


Anyone care to explain the rust on my obviously not all stainless Dansk from Pelican @ $661.75 plus $17.00, plus the labor to install it?

From the Pelican catalog:

OE Style SS Dual Inlet Sport Muffler, with Dual (70mm Dual Tip) tailpipes, 911 (1974)
PEL-911-101010153 $661.75

The SSIs (which are clearly still holding their original polish) and Dansk were installed at the same time, spring of '03, and is clearly not a very good grade of stainless and clearly not all stainless. I am not happy.

Any stainless will rust given the right conditions but this is unacceptable IMO. Worse yet having the two intake pipes not stainless (which they clearly are not and will hold a magnet) means they'll rust out long before the muffler will. Even a poor quality stainless muffler.

WTF are they thinking? I really detest products done poorly to cut a few bucks off the manufactures costs at our expense.

[sundaypunch]

Originally posted by rdane

Any stainless will rust given the right conditions but this is unacceptable IMO.

Stain-less isn't stain-free but that's not cool after one year. I've seen a number of people with less than stellar things to say about Danske mufflers. Do they offer any kind of warranty?

[rdane]

Do they offer any kind of warranty?

You can bet I'll be finding out in the morning.

Is that the high dollar muffy you installed last year? That blows.....

[jfpound]

Those intake pipes are cast, and very thick, like .2" thick. I know because I cut mine off to go to 2.5" inlets. It will take a very long time for them to rust through. Still disappointing though.

[kqw]

Another story on the QUALITY of DANSKE......Call Pelican and have them stand by the product....

[Carrera3.5L]

I think it's been documented in past threads that the grade of stainless on the Dansk mufflers is not high. It is certainly not T304 or T321 that is less prone to rust. It is probably 409 grade stainless which is better than aluminized steel but not much.

An easy trick is to put a magnet to it. If the magnet sticks, it is a very low grade of stainless and will rust eventually due to a high ferrous (iron) content. If it doesn't stick, it is a higher grade of stainless and won't rust. Easy test.

That said, I have a "stainless" Dansk because the other mufflers available in the aftermarket aren't shaped like the original unit which is what I was after. Than again, I didn't have to pay what you did (a little more than half) for yours as I got it for a special price due to a catalog typo that a Pelican competitor made.

To be honest, there are much higher quality systems available for Audi, VW and BMW models than for our beloved "classic" 911's. The welding on both my pre-muffler and muffler also leaves alot to be desired. It looks like it was done by a high school welding class. Not what I was used to seeing being in the VW/Audi performance aftermarket. Unless you want to pay alot of money for a custom muffler using a high grade of stainless with neat welds, you are pretty much stuck. Pity.

I would doubt that there is a warranty on it, I was told when ordering that there wasn't. For $400, I figured I was at least getting a somewhat stainless muffler with the polished dual 84mm tips for the price of the regular aluminized muffler with single 70mm tip.



Ralph

[Scooter]

Side note: The car has been sitting for the past 5+ months in the shop, without being subject to the elements.

[campbellcj]

Well...SSI has declined to enter the muffler business and at this time I am certainly not aware of any "higher quality" offerings than the Dansk for a 2-in/2-out sport muffler.

The Monty is probably superior if you are looking for an end-outlet style and do not mind the somewhat "non-factory" appearance of the main sausage.

My solution for exhaust longevity is to...keep the car dry! (Not tough here in drought-ridden SoCal.) I have the Dansk muffler and JetHot coated (mild steel) Bursch headers on my 914-6 and no rust spots in over a year, knock on wood.

I think that if we want to pay $3000 for headers and $1300 for mufflers, we certainly could have a supreme quality, stainless, TIG welded product.

The manufacturers clearly know that not every Porsche owner will spend that kind of dough on an exhaust system...not to mention that it is typically a once in a (car's) lifetime purchase because any decent quality exhaust will last many years. So the numbers are tough to work out, given the limited size market and the substantial costs for R&D, tooling, marketing, and distribution. (On the other hand, materials and production costs are probably cheaper than ever, but they are a drop in the bucket!)

BTW (OT) Ralph what is your preferred exhaust for the Audi's? I have heard the S4 can benefit a lot from a 3" catback with less backpressure but there are so many options. I do not want a ton of noise as it is a daily driver and my 914 is plenty noisy to make up for it.

[rdane]

Actually the car is seldom driven in the rain. Always parked in a heated garage and in a enclosed shop for well over 6 months of the last 14 months the muffler has been on the car.

I work on metal everyday. I know the difference between stainless and carbon steel. I bought a stainless exhaust as advertised. I also know the differences between grades of stainless alloys. This one isn't clearly isn't stainless.

[Wayne 962]

Hi Dane - let me chime in here. First of all, I have learned recently that stainless steel doesn't necessarily mean it won't rust. My SSIs started to rust in our showroom (had never been mounted on a car). Brad at SSI informed me that finding some surface rust on them was not unusual. I have found that the Dansk mufflers are good quality - not as good as some custom exhaust jobs that I have seen, but in general, we have almost no returns on them, and the customers are typically very happy.

I'd be happy to find out what the warranty/exchange/replacement options are from Dansk. We can't take back a muffler that's been used on the road for 16 months, but I can sure find out if there are any options available from the manufacturer - Dansk. In fact, I'll email Danskman (from the board), and ask him to comment here.

Thanks,

Wayne

P.S. The muffler cost to you was $439.50 (not $661.75) from your invoice on 1-19-03. I'm not even 100% sure if the new one we sell for $661.75 is the same one.

[Scooter]

Muffler has been "used on the road" for less than a year.

[rdane]

Just to be clear here. I work in a precision machine shop every day with esoteric tool steels from titanium, several grades of carbon steel and stainless, to the "unobtainium" Japanese alloys I manufactured from. I also know a great deal about how metals oxidize since I have to protect much my work, to some degree, with surface protection. Any stainless will oxidize given the right conditions (salt air is one). You can clearly see the differences between the quality of the stainless in the SSI headers and lack of quality stainless and the obvious use of carbon steel in the Dansk.

I might have been one of the "typically happy with Dansk", if I had never bothered to look under my car.

[89911]

I wouldn't worry about it. I thought is was general knowledge that some parts of all "stainless" mufflers are not all the same material. The first thing my mechanic told me prior to mounting the muffler was to hit the flanges with some zinc primer or like. Here is a picture of my Dansk muffler after about 2 years of use. It was high polished stainless when first mounted. Still hasn't rusted significantly, but is far from what it looked like new.

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by rdane
You can clearly see the differences between the quality of the stainless in the SSI headers and lack of quality stainless and the obvious use of carbon steel in the Dansk.

Indeed, that statement is tough to argue with.

Let's see what Danskman has to say...

-Wayne

[Doug Zielke]

As previously stated, the inlet pipes are (thick) cast iron. They rust just like a stock muffler. The shell of my 2/1 appears to be SS and has no rust after 2 years, except.... where the spot welds on the outside are made to secure inner baffles. Those welds are rusty. When I draw a magnet across the muffler, it will adhere strongly to the area where the baffles are. I suspect that while the outer shell is SS, the innards are not.

I like the sound and performance of the Dansk on my car, and wouldn't change it due to a bit of surface rust. If you insist on an all SS muffler, buy a GHL or a Monty. Dansk should stop advertising the muffler as SS, if their claims are false.

[Rot 911]

Damn I'm glad I bought the painted Dansk and saved myself a couple of hundred dollars!

[Scooter]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
Dansk should stop advertising the muffler as SS, if their claims are false.

I believe this is the point. This practice applies to the seller as well, because the seller is responsible for its own content. On a customer service level, I think the seller should correct the problem, then the seller should take it up with the producer.

[911ctS]

I have the SS Dansk as well. Bought it about 2 years ago and have the same rust on the inlet pipes (definately not SS). The rest of the muffler is very nice and has turned a sort of irridecent gold color, kinda cool. Plus the thing sounds bad a$$. I have always wondered why the whole thing wasn't stainless though. Seems like if your gonna do something 7/8's of the way, why not go the whole distance to make it complete.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Buy a Fabspeed.

Stephan