I had no clue.......long

[rdane]

10 months ago (8/02) I had no clue about 911s or Porsches in general for that matter. On a flight of fancy I decided to buy one for my birthday. It just sounded like something I “should" do!

Heck I haven’t left my first childhood yet and don’t plan on it any time soon so why not?

A friend had a ’79 SC for sale at the right price. (or so I thought) Ignoring the past history of the car (read here, "money pit" @ 10K$ in 10K miles over a 7 year period) I took it to a local shop for a buyer’s inspection. Assured the car was worth every penny I was paying, I added an oil change to the service record. (Little did I know I just bought what was to become for me a 40K$+ SC!)

That afternoon I took off on a fast 800 mile round trip drive picking up my wife in the middle of it and introducing her to my new toy on the ride home!

I ignored the bald tires, bad shocks, minor oil leaks with the obligatory burnt oil smell and my wife's displeasure and instead Ijust fell in love with “my” Porsche. They are cool cars in any condition that runs. By week’s end I had found Pelican’s BB and Wayne’s “101 Projects”. At first I did my own work. But time and patience drove me to look for a reliable Porsche shop by late winter. A good shop is as hard to find as a clean and reliable 911 I think.

Pelican members gave me some great info, clued me in on what was good and bad service, then gave me a chance to look at Randy’s “Iris” and Jacks” BB 1 and 2. All contributed ideas for my car project and firmly planted in my brain that the end result could be even more than I first experienced.

In short I had quickly become a Porsche geek like the rest of you Numerious DE and track days followed.

I have almost finished with my car. Only the interior and the 3.6 transplant are left. The motor will wait till next winter. The interior when it starts to rain again, will be easy enough to do.

Hopefully my experience might help others who travel the same road in the future. Things I would do different or the same?

Different:

Get three or more buyer’s inspections done first. Took three shops to find my car had damage from a previous wreck! Get it aligned and corner balanced first thing and make those results part of the pre purchase discussion and agreement. It will save you a LOT of money in the long run. Hard to fix bent cars. I know a little about the cars now and I would still have three inspections done when I buy a used one again. More eyes and more experience with these cars will never hurt you.

If buying again no question I would buy a newer car….”87 to ’89 Carrera with a sun roof. Get the G50, 3.2 and better brakes from the get go. Add SSIs and a chip, the rest is easy.

Or get a clean body to start with and go ground up as Jack and Randy did on their cars as time and your pocket book allows. The more I drive my car and compare it to the newer cars, I would like to build ground up next time.

Things I’d do different on the next 3.0 SC or 3.2?

Keep the SC brakes instead of adding 930s. Just add air ducting, pads and slotted rotors and you are set even for moderate track use. DE days will never be a problem with good maintance. And you'd need that with any brake system.
Buy Pole Position Ricaros instead of the SRDs. Much better value in seats. Just hard to get in and out of.
Use a good after market, light weight, wing instead of a OEM wing.
Get the 8” 944 and 9” 911 Fuchs wheels from the get go with SO3s (forget all the expensive 17" wheels)
21/30 or 22/31 Sanders hollow torsion bars. I have 22/30s and like them.
HD front with sport rear Biltsteins (worth having them revalved IMO)
The dual outlet Danke stainless sounds nice but is too damn LOUD after a couple of hours in the car.
I'd spend more (and a stainless Danke aint cheap) for a better muffler....
NEVER track the car, it’s too addictive and expensive

Much of what I have done with oil cooler, brakes, transmission and suspension were to set up the car for a latter 3.6 transplant. You'll save a lot of money by plannning ahead and only doing this all once, based on the motor/HP you'll want in the end project.
My goal is 280/300 hp.

The same:

Things worth every penny and more in a 3.0 SC? And what seemed to make the biggest differences in performance, pride of ownership, creature comfort and drivability. In no special order. Some of the cheapest mods were generally the most noticable to the driver, like the C4 lights, gear oil, pedal / wheel change, and wiper park.

Clear bra…should have used “Stoneguard” though.
The short ratio gear box and limited slip
20/21 cam
After market pedals, wheel and seats (although it has been expensive to find the ones I like best)
New shocks, huge difference in how the car drove and handled?
SSIs
C4 headlights
Good alignment and corner balance
Reverse the wipers
New heater boxes
Shifter linkage rebuild with new gear oil
Halon, fire system plumbed in (simply for peace of mind)
Pole Position seats
Driver’s Ed in any fashion

The list of recent upgrades on my ’79 SC for your reference:
Car was 100% stock and in serious need of repair when I purchased it. (needed: clutch, tires, shocks, previous unibody damage repair, engine reseal, brake pads, rotors, front end rebuild and bushings replaced, ect)
My buyer’s inspection (done by a Porsche Club recommended shop BTW) listed less than 3K$ in repairs needed! Little did I know!!

Here are some of the details on my 1979 SC: done between 10/1/02


and 6/20/03



and 8/10/03



Body work:
Clear 3M bra and car protection (Stoneguard)
Reversed wiper arms
RSA OEM wing @ paint
C4 head lights with 55/100s, wiring relay installed & painted trim rings
Borsch fog lights 55
*RUF style MA Shaw YB bumpers with nerf bar front and aluminum heat shield back, original Ruf front air dam, paint, plate lights and mount
Reweld of the unibody @ rear torsion tubes and engine compartment from previous collision damage, repaired 6/01/03

Engine and transmission:
(5/14/04 new CIS Max Moritz 3.4 was fired up built on this 3.0)

Complete case reseal @ 187,424 actual miles on engine
Carrera hydraulic chain tensioners, new style lines and support arms (6/19/03)
Air pop off value
Turbo camshaft oil line restrictors
B&B stainless front spoiler oil cooler
Webcam, performance grind, 20/21 camshaft / new OEM rockers 5/15/03
Heat sheets
Magnecor wire set
Turbo value covers
Club sport mounts on the engine and transmission
SSIs and a dual outlet Danke stainless
Pre 1974 oil lines
Close ratio on a rebuilt 915 (20K miles) with new gearing on 2 thru 5, 132mph @ 7K
Factory ZF limited slip, set @ 80%
Sachs Power Clutch
High Performance Aluminum Flywheel (59% lighter)
Wevo internal gate shift kit
Optima RS race/street battery in original position

Brakes:
Braided stainless steel brake lines
SCI 930 brake conversion from a ’86 with slotted, floating front calipers and OEM drilled rears
Ferodo FDB 451 high performance street/track pads
AJ USA brake air kit

Suspension:
Elephant Racing triangulated cross bar
22 front with 30 rear, Sander's hollow T bars
20 front and 18 rear stock OEM sway bars
solid bushings (nitrex or nylon) all around (less rear sway bar)
Bilstein sport shocks
new ball joints
Turbo Tie rods
Alignment, corner balanced, lowered by Tru-line Seattle, 6/20/03 @ Euro ride height @ 25.0” front, 24.25” rear
Fr 484/492 rr 798/782

Wheels and tires:
Fuchs from a ‘86 993 7" and 9" wheels
205 and 245 SO3s dry and 205 and 245 KDWs wet

(now 7/18/03) they are 17" 10 spoke Fikse with SO2s 235x45s and 255x40s that fit easily in the SC flairs with no mods.)

and back to custom 8 and 9.5" x 16 custom Fuchs 5/21/04

Interior:

SafeCraft 5# Halon 1301 Fire system, pull cord activation, plumbed for single cockpit and with dual nozzles in engine compartment
Ricaro SRDs (driver’s has a sub strap)
Momo 07 wheel (my fifth wheel)
tecni quick release hub
WEVO shifter and race knob
AJ USA pedals and dead pedal
new VDO speedo
new heater boxes
and a really nice stereo (it will relieve some stress in stop and go traffic


Next update (7/18/03)

My fairly stock '79 SC weighed in at 2656, 2664, 2676, 2679 with no air, with a factory front spoiler, fogs, SRDs, full power interior and a sun roof, during 4 different corner balances at two different shops.

Call it 2660# with half tank of gas.

Then I added to factory RSA tail, CRT f/g bumpers, 930 brakes, B&B front oil cooler and a plumbed 5# Halon system. Wheels are Fuchs 7 and 9s with SO3s 205/245 x16. The weight has dropped to 2556 and 2567 on the last two corner balances with no spare or tools. I try to have a half tank of gas in the car when I have the balances done.

That makes it 2560#

This week I stripped the interior & sound matts leaving only the rear quarter pads and covers, head liner and door panels. I added ten spoke Fikse with 235x17 and 255x17 SO2s and a single Ricaro Pole Position and a rubber floor matt. (tires added about 35#)

Again a half tank of gas and we are at 2285#
My goal is breaking 2200# dry.

A little loud. (not as bad as expected though) Ear plugs help ...but they helped before too.

Yes it is faster...enough so I am going to leave it as a single seater till after the next track day

More to come on the interior.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/122704-looking-clean-low-mileage-3-6-a.html#post912711

and the latest pic or the current version

[smithH]

nice account, and a great looking car!

[Craig Stevens]

I have a feeling that if many of us added the receipts for parts & labor that have been spent upgrading our cars, we would be embarrassed. My Receipt book is 2" thick. I was one of many that made fun of the 2 guys that spent so much on their SC's. I'm not laughing at them anymore. Starting with a goal for your car is a much smarter way to upgrade. That,along with knowledge & experience will save a butload of time & money. just my $.02 Would i do it again? YUP, just smarter next time. Craig

[dean]

Good write up. I have to question one thing. So you don't like the 930 brakes? I did them and I love them and I don't even track my car. Paying for them was the only hard part but that wasn't even that hard.

I have a huge recipt file also. I didn't make fun of those two SC guys. I thought there's two guy who spent more money than me. woo-hoo

[rdane]

"So you don't like the 930 brakes?"

Not what I said. I wouldn't do them again on a 3.0 SC is more accurate. The 930 brakes are fine and will be appreciated on a 3.6. I think it is money better spent to service and maintain SC brakes if you are keeping a 3.0 size power plant and HP.

My thought on this post was many (including myself) are easily swayed on what is actually needed and what adds some bling to our cars. Big brakes have a "cool" factor. Is is money well spent? Not in my opinion, having had both.

Love my car, money is not the issue. Doing it right the first time is.

[Joe Bob]

My rebuilt and aggresive padded SC brakes are fine with my 3.6......I bigger brakes for me would be an Oh wow thing at best....

[Neilk]

I noticed the wife and dog are in the first picture and not in the second. Did you leave her for the 911? Looks like an impressive set of upgrades. I am sorry to hear that your PPI didn't work out for you.

[speeder]

Originally posted by rdane




Love my car, money is not the issue. Doing it right the first time is.

Couldn't agree more. We all live and learn, excellent thread. And at least you have a great 911, many have invested similar $$ and wound up w/ an "ebay horror". Have a great summer!

P.S.: Good looking redheads!

[jhugh]

I love my Carrera. But if I had to do it over again, I'd get a 930.

[rdane]

Naw, both red heads are still around Neil, thankfully

The PPI was interesting. I think it did cover what most would see as needed for an older SC and on this one in particular. Turning that car into a car I would want to keep for another 20 years takes a deeper and more detailed look. Depends on your plans I quess. But knowing from the start what really needs to be done will help you plan the project or scare you away.

I have since looked at 964s, 993s and 996s. I wouldn't buy any of them because they aren't the basic sports car feel I found and really like in the older cars. Once refurbished I think the older car is easier to appreciate, way more fun and will always be more the classic. If I thought I was throwing money away I'd sell it in a heart beat and go buy a new car. I would be more careful what I buy to rebuild next time though. At one point I had wished for a 3.2 with no sun roof. Now I "have" to have a sun roof.
It adds enjoyment to the car.

A '89 Cab would be great as a second 911 for my use. Like everything you learn what your needs are as you gain experience.

The conversation about the new Z and trading your current 911 ride was interesting. The family I bought my 25 year old car from also had a one owner early Z. I drove my 911 away and then on a 800 mile trip with no problems. The Z we taken out on a flat bed a couple of months earlier for a full restore and still isn't runnning. Imagine the cost of a ground of restore done right on that car? But sadly it will still be just a 30 year old Z. On the other hand I'll have a 2300#, 280 HP, simply amazing, 911

"My rebuilt and aggresive padded SC brakes are fine with my 3.6......I bigger brakes for me would be an Oh wow thing at best...."

Exactly! I suspected as much after a few track days on both. SCs have great brakes to start with. The big advantage on the 930 brakes is how easy it is to change pads......almost worth the 3K for the up grade

[Schrup]

Those are very impressive before & after photos. Your car is beautiful. I much the same jumped into the 911 I own without enough research. So far it seems I got lucky, but time will tell. I am opting for a different route than yours. My goal is to do a ground up concourse qaulity restore on mine & turn it into a garage queen. I doubt this will be any cheaper then a massive upgrade such as your doing. But I love the way my car looked off the showroom floor & want to see it look that way again. Good luck & I will post pictures as I go.

[Superman]

Thanks for the story. You have built a very nice car indeed. This illustrates some important aspects of buying. For many, the perfect purchase would be an unwrecked, unmolested, fastidiously maintained, completely original example. Perhaps a few sensible upgrades like pressure fed tensioners.

For some of us, this is not the perfect purchase. "Perfect" for some would be someone else's expensive, completed or near completed project car. With this, you might get stuff like 3.6, race buckets, roll cage (if desired), shocks, torsion bars, lightweight bumpers, SSIs, yadda yadda. You might pay $20-25K for a good project car, but you'd be money ahead.

For folks like rdane who spend oodles building their ideal car, there is a consolation. You got an incredible deal if you consider the fact that, in the minds of many of us, it is now arguably one of the finest cars in the world. I'm not kidding.

[rdane]

Concourse, black, Weissach 911? That will be a cool car. No worries, I suspect it will be a good deal cheaper to make right than a full blown project car.

[sammyg2]

It's easy to make money fixing up a 911. Just make sure you don't keep track of all the money you spend. In my case I only remember a small fraction of what I've spent so if it ever comes time to sell her, I'll actually think it was worth it

[rdane]

The real trick is find good, agreed value, insurance and then drive the car like you stole it

[Jdub]

I met Dane this AM to purchase his KDWs (the wet tires). As some of you may know he doesn't need these because the NorthWest is experiencing what may be the driest summer in its history. Sorta like California without the Californians (sorry, couldn't resist!).

With limited funds I am always looking for the next upgrade that 1) requires parts I can purchase cheaply and 2) can do myself. That said what I want to do often requires stepping back and approaching things holistically. That means that the alignment and corner balance cannot happen until I have rebuilt the f/r suspension (that is, the money would be "badly" spent aligning worn parts). But what if the car is "off" and no matter how many new parts the car still won't align?

That's why Dane's suggestion to have the car aligned (and optionally c/balanced) at the PPI/agreed on purchase is an excellent tip.

Great writeup. This would weave nicely in a "Beyond the Buyer's Guide for SCs" FAQ.

John

[rdane]

For the record I started the interior project early and am almost finished. If anyone tells you "its' easy" as I did in a previous post above, they are full of ****! It is neither easy nor inexpensive to do right......and then there is the head liner which adds even more to the costs and time!

[SCVWGUY]

Looks very nice

[rdane]

A lot has happened since August. A number of further up grades and a engine rebuild this winter that is about to be finished. Any one want the details?

[epbrown]

Yep! Fill us in

Emanuel