Neatrix or Poly-graphite spring plate bushings?

[frankc]

My '77 Targa is in need of new Spring Plate bushings and I am trying to decide on the best material to use. First, I don't drive the car all that much these days. I have used it at an occasional drivers school, but mostly the car is driven on the street. However as long as I was at it, I figured a slight improvement would be nice.

So, I purchased a set of the Weltmeister Poly-Graphite busings in a "Street" hardness (not the "Race"), figuring this would be a little harder than OEM, but not unbearable. After talking to some people, they seem to be recommending the Neatrix bushings, but have never experienced the "Street" Weltmeister ones.

Has anyone installed the "Street" poly-graphite bushings and like to share their experience? If the consensus is that it is a bad idea, I have no problem purchasing the Neatrix bushings as they are relatively inexpensive.

While I had the Spring Plate off, I figured I would bump up the Torsion Bars slightly as well with the hollow Weltmeisters (21F, 26 or 27R). And, of course, as long as the bars were out, I always wanted to drop the car about an inch to euro height. I assume my car has the spacers at the top of the shocks that will need to be removed? I have the original Koni's that now have 100K miles on them. Should I consider replacing them as well? And what about the Rear Trailing Arm bushings?

This project sure seems to be snow-balling out of control quickly. At a minimum, I need to replace the SP bushings, and I would like to lower it. The rest can wait? Sorry for all the questions - this started out as just a simple question post.

thanks for any advice,
Frank

[Jeff Alton]

Poly-bronze from Elephant Racing are the way to go if you can afford them. You can get them from Pelican. I had Neatrix and they sagged like the factory ones in short order. Poly graphite ones may end up being a little noisy after a while. The Poly bronze ones are quiet and they can be greased easily without removal. They will not degrade the ride quality at all. Yes, they cost more, but they are worth it in my opinion.

Cheers, Jeff

[Schrup]

I've got over 3k hard miles on my polygraphite with no problems. Think they cost me about $44 & were easy to install.

[Shuie]

Ive got the neatrix on my springplates. No complaints so far, but I probably only have 1000 miles on them.

Paul, do the Polygraphite bushings squeek? Did you have to install grease fittings like on the front?

[Wil Ferch]

Look at Chuck Mooreland's early post on poly bushongs...before he came up with the later poly-bronz.
Poly have to be "fitted" and having grease fittings is a good idea. Works well in the front but unless you do Neatrix or Poly Bronze in the back....don't know how you can grease-fit both inner and outer areas in the back if you go pure poly...a problem IMHO...
--Wil

[Randy Webb]

I would just get the Elph. stuff and be done with it. Otherwise I would use new stock rubber.

[Wil Ferch]

Randy....both are rather spendy and would lend to one answer...the Elephant poly bronze. I think we were talking pro/con of reasonably priced alternatives. The lower cost options can be made to work...but things need to be considered when you do those (grease fittings, etc)
--Wil

[Randy Webb]

Ah... Well, in that case: new rubber if mainly street, and a lot of greasing if you want something stiff.

[Schrup]

I have to assume that the product I installed was different than the poly bushings that have to be lathed & fitted with zerks. I called the manufacture & he said it was unnecessary, although I installed them in the A-arm bushings anyway. The A-arm bushing were 2 different sizes front & rear. I read all of the earlier threads about fitment, binding, squeaking, & "sticktion". I have not had any of these issues. I also contacted the shop that was to perform the corner balance & alignment before installation & they told me that I wouldn't have any problems. I did not use Weltmeister bushings or the poly-carbonate bushings. My bushings are impregnated with graphite to help prevent squeaking.

I have nothing to say about any other bushings, because I haven't used them, but will continue to speak up when I see people slight poly-graphite bushings. My question would be, is it possible that the poly-graphite bushings are of a higher quality then the poly bushings that people had problems with years ago? Does anyone with poly-graphite bushings on their car feel unsatisfied?

[88 Club Sport]

I installed poly's up front on my 78 SCarrera.......more work than I thought to get the perfect fit but I've been happy with them. I notched the ID and installed Zerks incase they sqeak later but so far they have not.

I did these at the same time I did shocks (Bilstein Sports), turbo tie rods, 23/29 torsions, neatrix in the rear. It's a totaly different car.

Check out Chucks thread: Suspension bushing, the right way

[88 Club Sport]

I obviously didn't read your post very well......your talking about the rear plates and I answered for the front bushings. Sorry about that.

That said, I went Neatrix for the rear spring plates. Once I pressed them in they were I devil to get off again (had to reindex) but over all, I've been happy.

[frankc]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I'm not exactly sure what the consensus is at this point (if there is one). It seems like the poly-graphites I purchased *should* be fine, but the Eleph. racing poly-bronze bushings just look like such a better solution (I'm an engineer) that they're hard to resist. That is the way I am leaning at the moment.

Any thoughts on the trailing arm bushings? Should I replace these while I am at it? Is there any labor savings (my own) in doing them now Vs. later (i.e. do I need to remove the spring plates to replace the trailing arm bushings)?

thanks again for all the great advice. I've owned this car for nearly 20 years, making it better year by year. I like to do all the work that I can myself mainly because it gives me the opportunity to clean and refurbish or replace all the parts involved in the project (plus I enjoy it). The engine is done ('74 RS spec w/Webers), the body is now perfect thanks to Stoddards, and now its suspension time.

cheers,
Frank

[Chuck Moreland]

Frank

It's a good idea to replace the trailing arm bushings "while you're in there". Both projects require an alignment so it's best to leverage that over both jobs. And if your spring plate bushes are shot, it's a safe bet you need new trailing arm bushes too.

You can get factory rubber replacements or monoballs.

[dd74]

Chuck - aside from physically checking the trailing arm bushings themselves, if those bushings have gone bad, how would the car's ride react? Would it be sloppy, wander around, etc?

Thanks.

[Chuck Moreland]

DD, deteriorated trailing arm bushings will compress more than normal. The result is wandering suspension settings, particularly rear toe under load. Handling is less predictable.

Because they are buried, those bushings are impossible to inspect. Pulling them out destroys them.

Best to just replace based upon age or inspect other rubber bushes in the car and assume the trailing arm bushes are in similar condition.

[Superman]

I'm going to speak to one of your smaller questions. Shocks. If you wanted to do one thing that would make the biggest overall improvement, you'd replace the shocks. I strongly recommend it.

[frankc]

All this advice is wonderful.

Chuck, will I need to drop the engine/tranny (915) to get at the TA bushings?

Man of steel, I remember hearing somewhere that Koni's have a lifetime warranty. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, how would I go about getting mine replaced? How do I prove they are "broken". Or does the warranty only apply to defects and not normal wear? Should they be worn out by 100k miles?

Also, where can I get an Angle Finder for setting my spring plate angle?

Frank

[Chuck Moreland]

On your 77 you can pull the bolts and replace the TA bushings without dropping the tranny. Pre '73 cars have are not so lucky.

[juanbenae]

chuck, the pulling of the tranny is not required for 77 and newer, but the t-bar tubes still have to be depressed to get the bolt out, right?

[Chuck Moreland]

Toby, 73 and newer cars have the depression in the torsion tube that allows the bolt to be removed. Earlier cars do not.