Mystery: what's this hole near my front torsion bar mounts? (pic)

jkarolyi · 07-16-2004, 03:24 PM

I bought my '71 911E with the problem shown in the photo below. Kind of scared me away from buying the car, but everything else about the car was great!

It drives and handles great as it is. I'm wondering if it doesn't have something to do with the hydraulic suspension (self-levelling) that came with all '69-71 911E models. Did a hydraulic line once go through that hole? There is also a small screw hole in the top (in the trunk) where you can see down into the bottom hole. See it in the upper left hand corner of this pic:

The drivers side has a bolt-on brace that goes over the torsion bars, but from the pictures I've seen, most 911s don't have this over the driver's side torsion bar.

What should I do to correct this? Thanks for any help solving this mystery!

Zeke · 07-16-2004, 04:30 PM

There is supposed to be a third welded in threaded insert there. The brace you mention is a protector for the end of the A-arm. It bolts to the front (missing) insert.

jkarolyi · 07-16-2004, 04:40 PM

Are all 911s supposed to have this protector for the driver's side? How would I go about obtaining the part to fix this?

Zeke · 07-16-2004, 06:22 PM

It's the same for each side. I think something looks bent there where the third bolt hole is supposed to be. Both sides are meant to look the same.

Randy Webb · 07-16-2004, 07:55 PM

Yes, I think you need to check for accident damage - looks like somebody hit something, bent the sheet metal and ripped away the front "cup" shaped part....

TurboBert · 07-16-2004, 09:15 PM

Yes, please be scared.

jkarolyi · 07-16-2004, 10:16 PM

>Yes, please be scared.

Really, is it as bad as all that? Should I stop driving it? From the looks of it, all I would need to do is get that cup shaped part and have it welded on. The sheet metal (floor pan) looks the same as on the pax side. I would also need the torsion bar protector bracket. Is that all I would need to do? Where could I find parts like this? A scrapyard?

Zeke · 07-17-2004, 07:09 AM

Don't be afraid to drive it. I would find another 911 and crawl under before hitting the panic button. You can buy any or all of the sheetmetal and maybe just the small portion of the front a-arm mounting point tha contains the insert. Or, you could get some big washers and bolt one one that way. Have you had the alignment checked?

Randy Webb · 07-17-2004, 10:23 AM

OR maybe you can just beat out the panel. + install the missing susp. stuff. THere may not be that much damage.

But.... maybe there is more damage than you think. The fact that this is there (or not there) suggests problems - serious ones with the PPI you had done (you did have a one done, right?). So it's possible there is more damage, and just possible that it is not fit to drive.

How risk averse are you? If it was me, I'd drive the car around town, but not at highspeeds on the hwy. until I had a good pro look at it really carefully. Or the equivalent -- a good friend who really knows these cars well and knows mechanics, etc. A brother in law who is a structural engineer and has rebuilt numerous 911s would be the perfect relative...

Anyway, don't panic as Zeke says, but do get it looked at. There's a range of possibilities and err on the side of conservativsm.

jkarolyi · 07-17-2004, 02:08 PM

>The brace you mention is a protector for the end of the A-arm.

The PPI mechanic said that's what was normally there, but wasn't sure if it was maybe a mounting point for part of the now-removed hydraulic suspension standard that year. How did that system work?

He did say there was some evidence of a minor front-end collision at some point in it's life...the hood and hood latch panel had been replaced...but it had to be minor because it has both original front fenders with no filler/bondo. I'm guessing now that's when the A-Arm protector got torn off. Wonder why they didn't repair it.

I bought the car anyway because the rest of it was very straight and rust free, had in-spec leakdown, and was a California car since new. I've been having a blast with it and I'm glad I purchased this one.

oldE · 07-17-2004, 02:24 PM

The Boge self-leveling struts were completely self-contained. As the suspension worked over road irregularities, they used check valves to "pump themselves up" to a pre-determined ride height. As such, they replaced the torsion bars and no front anti-roll bar was fitted. Many leaked and were replaced with conventional torsion bars and shocks.
Les

jkarolyi · 07-17-2004, 03:03 PM

The PPI mechanic told me that almost all of them were replaced with conventional suspension, thus his ignorance on how the system mounted.

Oldporsche · 07-17-2004, 03:12 PM

Some of the 911e (early ones, probably '69-70) didn't have the sockets for the ends of the torsion bars. I converted mine using 911T bars, and modified the uprights to hold conventional shocks.

That real big hole is for something else. Did this car have airconditioning? The covers over the ends of the torsion bars in front didn't have the tow hooks that the '74 and later cars had.

I replaced the front pan in my '70 and installed some hooks on the torsion bar mount/covers. Originally there was a loop welded onto the lower front pan that could be used as a tow hook.

Good luck,
David Duffield