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bob tilton's Avatar
 
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SvK,
i understand not wanting to put a whole in a clean uncut "exclusive to 68" door panel but you do know the door frame will accomadate a 6.5" speaker, yeah?
ipods rule!
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Old 07-25-2004, 10:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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For what it's worth, before all the stuff was stolen from my Civic, I had the following:

MTX 4x75 Amp powering Pioneer 6x9s in the back and Pioneer 6.5 components up front

Pioneer DEHP-6500 receiver

Pioneer 12-disc changer

Powering speakers from an amp will generally yield sound with more clarity. I've also found that sticking with the same make of mid-range products is a good idea. I got good bass for all types of music (rock, hip hop, etc), and excellent high notes. Someone mentioned the Evanescence CD earlier - it is a pretty good CD to test and tune, I think. That entire set up ran me about $1100, and I did the install myself.

A lot of my brother's friends swear by MB Quarts. I've heard some, and they are quite good, but I am not sure they're worth the money. I think you can get the sound you want by powering some good fronts and rears with a 4x50 or so amp.
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by svonkampen
lendaddy.........A car is a very enclosed environment........Also when sitting in the front seat your ear is closer to the left door than the right door......so the whole concept of sitting in the "sweet-spot" (in the middle of the speakers) is out the window anyway.........so imaging would be off

Am I wrong in this??
True, door speakers tend to pull the soundstage to one side. Thatís why proper speaker placement is so important, so rears are not the answer. The solution is more along the lines of Digital Time Alignment to give the drivers seat the sweet spot. A good set of custom kick panels will also provide a solid soundstage if positioned properly. The farther forward you can get the speakers the better. The automobile has many obstacles to overcome and itís not simple to get good staging, but it can be done.

Last edited by TurboRuf; 07-26-2004 at 01:20 PM..
Old 07-26-2004, 04:54 AM
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Dynaudio is by far the best I have heard. I have been in the car audio world for 15 yrs now. They are expensive but if you like quality. Speakers only in the rear deck is not the way to go, First there is not enough depth, unless you build some ugly boxes. Kick panels are good location but they allways get in the way. The front are the best option. Alpine makes a great head unit, and if you like your Ipod get a head unit with AUX inputs. Belkin also makes car kits for Ipod which boost output level, The only down fall to Ipod is the output level ( way to low).
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Old 07-26-2004, 05:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanTheCat


I'm pretty sure Bell put his tweets and mids in an unusual location, maybe he would have some ideas for low-impact driver placement.
actually i built enclosures in the floor for the 5.25's, the 8's are the only thing in the door, the tweets are firing at the windshield from in front of the outer visor mounts.
i played for weeks to get the placement of the tweets where i needed them, i built my soundstage on the fundamentals of reflections, my stage is currently about 4 ft. in front of the windshield at chest level and about a ft. out on each side.......also there is no difference wether sitting in the drivers or pass seat

the doors will work ideally for placement, but the baffle needs to be strong (the aluminum plates are awesome).
if you run a sub stick it up front under the hood, it's where it belongs in my opinion.

also rear speakers aren't needed, one of the problems is the 911's rear window (targas more than coupes) will "amplify" narrow bands in the signal coming from the rear which distracts from the front stage, a 1/3 octave eq can solve this but requires an rta and some good ears.

here's my 5.25......you can see the grill in front of the seat.
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Old 07-26-2004, 05:17 AM
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I have seen and heard some pretty good sounding cars (sound quality award winning) with the fronts in the kick panels. You may want to check into that.
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Old 07-26-2004, 05:36 AM
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I think this covers way more than I can ever understand...
Where did you mount your Stereo Amp?
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Old 07-26-2004, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bell


here's my 5.25......you can see the grill in front of the seat.
Now that's impressive! Was it difficult to do that?
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Old 07-26-2004, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TurboRuf
Please...Please...Please tell me you are kidding?

Trash the rear speakers all together. Unless you go to concerts and look/listen in the opposite direction the band is playing?

Want great sound? Keep it simple. Get a nice set of components up front. Boston Acoustics Pro series, MB Quart Q-series, or A/D/S. Get a solid amplifier that puts out 75 watts or more per channel (Soundstream, Phoenix Gold, A/D/S, PPI, etc). Get a great head unit like a Pioneer DEX-P9, Alpine, or Nakamichi CD400. Set everything up the ďrightĒ way and you will be very satisfied.

If you really want to make is sound superb, add a nice 8Ē or 10Ē sub.
100% agreement. i actually dont think a car even needs rear speakers. concerts place the band/orchestra in front and so should you with the speakers. back speakers are for the suckers too slow to call "shotgun" and in my cars, they get bleedover sound from the fronts. i definately would get a sub, no way MBquarts can get anytype of bump into the system.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:12 AM
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just read some more stuff. i had a friend with an 1971 Z28. it also had the center of the dash speaker from the factory. he rigged up a center channel speaker in that location and to tell you the truth, although i couldnt put my finger on the improvements, i gotta admit, it made the car sound vibrant. i wish he would have shut if off for a comparison, but that was not the case. he had MBquarts in the doors, and his nasty early 80 chevy S10 took first place at some contest. if i had that center speaker location, i would take advantage of it.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TurboRuf
david914,

Beautiful, I'm a huge a/d/s fan. I just picked up a nice used set of 320 i/s components for my next install. Even by todayís standards they still sound fantastic.

Iíve attached a pic of my old 930 trunk setup. Not very glamorous but it sounded incredible. It looks like we have similar taste in audio equipment (PH15, 642i). My next install will look much cleaner. I intend to do a lot of custom fiberglass work to blend everything into the interior and trunk.

TurboRuf,

That's THE setup! You're right about the 320i's. Still a great sounding speaker system. I'm waiting on a pair of recess mounting cups for the tweeters that a fellow Pelican was kind enough to find for me. I used to have a pair, but let them go with the car that they were installed in just to fill the hole. I have pieced together the a/d/s/ "911 Music System" over the years and now that I have a coupe, it finally has a home! I had a pair of 325im's in the Targa, but being coaxial, the tweets were just too low and pointing at my ankles. Not good for imaging or tone. Right now the speakers are just being driven off the head unit until I get the amp rack built. I had the amp and an AX2 crossover mounted like yours in the Targa. The coupe will get a similar setup, just made out of aluminum this time, not wood. Can't wait to get the subwoofer installed too. It's a fiberglass enclosure that fits behind the rear seat backs. Nice and out of the way. I've been using the subs in an enclosure like Steve Wong's on the floor, but I think this one will work better and will be much lighter as my floor enclosure is made from MDF (VERY heavy).
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
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A center channel can certainly add to the soundstage. It is not always realistic depending on the vehicle. It is usually a mono signal with a high pass so it is mainly vocals and up the spectrum.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:41 AM
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THe Moch-1 is a poor way to mount speakers - the location is bad and the speakers are not rigidly mounted, leading to frequency dependent "smear."

Anybody want to buy mine?
Old 07-26-2004, 08:52 AM
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Bell, How about a close-up pic of the tweeter mounting?

Also, somebody that wanted to make in the door baffles and enclosures
would be doing us all a service...
Old 07-26-2004, 08:55 AM
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Bell, you need to move to the west coast! I second the request for more detailed mounting shots. I remember you were putting a driver on the floor, but I didn't want to say that because I wasn't sure anybody would believe me...

I was going to try to build a fiberglass door enclosure, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I like the aluminium plate idea, though. That would be a great starting point to add a little fiberglass to.

Dan
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Old 07-26-2004, 10:40 AM
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Unless they have changed their thinking, the tweeter on each side should be pointed at the opposite occupants inside ear, it should also be in relatively close relation to the accompanying midrange/midbass(assuming seperates).
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Old 07-26-2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lendaddy
Unless they have changed their thinking, the tweeter on each side should be pointed at the opposite occupants inside ear, it should also be in relatively close relation to the accompanying midrange/midbass(assuming seperates).
Yep, definitely a good recommendation. This helps move the soundstage forward and center. Iíve done countless cars this way and itís always sounded excellent.

The 911 is a very tricky car for audio, the stock mounting locations are terrible and the space is extremely limited. Additionally, the sound deadening is almost non-existent. If you create a fiberglass door enclosure for the midbass, try to angle it a little up and inwards. Creating a similar angle as described above by lendaddy.

I plan to go the kickpanel route since I just picked up a fresh set of RSA door panels and they look too clean without the speaker cut-outs.
Old 07-26-2004, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by david914
TurboRuf,

That's THE setup! You're right about the 320i's. Still a great sounding speaker system. I'm waiting on a pair of recess mounting cups for the tweeters that a fellow Pelican was kind enough to find for me. I used to have a pair, but let them go with the car that they were installed in just to fill the hole. I have pieced together the a/d/s/ "911 Music System" over the years and now that I have a coupe, it finally has a home! I had a pair of 325im's in the Targa, but being coaxial, the tweets were just too low and pointing at my ankles. Not good for imaging or tone. Right now the speakers are just being driven off the head unit until I get the amp rack built. I had the amp and an AX2 crossover mounted like yours in the Targa. The coupe will get a similar setup, just made out of aluminum this time, not wood. Can't wait to get the subwoofer installed too. It's a fiberglass enclosure that fits behind the rear seat backs. Nice and out of the way. I've been using the subs in an enclosure like Steve Wong's on the floor, but I think this one will work better and will be much lighter as my floor enclosure is made from MDF (VERY heavy).

Hehe... those recess mounts are hard to come by. That's the main reason I purchased this recent set, it included the recess mounts. This board is a fantastic resource.

How about a pic of that fiberglass enclosure? Where did you find it?

Last edited by TurboRuf; 07-26-2004 at 01:45 PM..
Old 07-26-2004, 01:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #59 (permalink)
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no offence, but i don't see any weight specifications...

wrong... so wrong...
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Old 07-26-2004, 01:58 PM
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