When bastardizing a 911

[JNadal]

Have any of the v8 conversion people tried using a 928 engine just to keep a porsche motor in their 911

[Lukesportsman]

big, heavy and more costly. I really don't think there is a cost or performance benefit....just pedigree, not characteristics. It has been done with a 914 with some serious body mod's. There is always a first and could probably be done in a back seat install, but I don't think there is enough length to hang her out the back. I might be wrong so give it a try

[JNadal]

Id never do it... seems wrong

but Im bringing it up because it might be a doable option to the chevy v8 conversion that some people have done.

[H20911]

Luke is right. Why would anyone want to go through all that work to have less power, more weight, more hassle on an installation, have to pay more every time it breaks just to say they have a porsche engine in it? You might as well mod the flat six.

Only Doo-Doo heads over pay to complete something that should never have been done in the first place.

BTW some V8 guys think that the flat 6 is a great engine just not enough power until you get into high dollar turbo stuff. They also do not think that the engine is the only thing that qualifies it as a porsche.
EX.
People don't look at my car and say that it's a chevy with a porsche body. They say that it is a porsche with a chevy engine.

Also, when they hear that it has chevy power the response is never "wow... why did you slow it down?"

[Quicksilver]

My favorite quote of Smokey Yunick is, "An engine doesn't know what make it is."


Wayne

[rsa]

I have been Hot Rodding and racing cars since the early 70's. The reason I picked the Porsche 911 was for their looks and driveablity. I still don't get what difference it makes what engine is in my car if it betters its performance.

I constantly read on this web site how everyone wants to increase ones performance at a reasonable price. I also read how it is so cool to take a perfect 911 and cut it up, add flares, wings, body kits, etc. Isn't this bastardizing as well.

Just you wait and see. In the near future, the 911 will have the water cooled v8 (chevy) as its engine. I'm just wonderding why it has taken so long.

Remember, PORSCHE is now in the numbers and profit game. It surely isn't in the racing game.

[Lukesportsman]

H20911,
I think one of the short coming of the V8 conversions is that your running a wet sump in most applications. I've always been concerned with lubrication (obviously it can be patched with the likes of accusump) in running the oil pans backwards. I know there is a very competitive V8 964 out there. Vipers, Corvettes and the non competition 996 versions have shown the wet sump to be the weak point.

Bull,
strong feelings sir. If you listen to Porsche managment closely, they say THE 997 will continue with the flat 6. Its almost in their body language that this might not continue. And maybe they just have their eyes set on DAKAR or BAJA for racing now

[H20911]

The real weak point to a V8 conversion is the cooling not the oil pan.
(you can dry sump and anyone with a serious racing budget will)

Once you get over about 350hp and 350tq the cooling systems seem to have a tough time keeping up. So the owner can't drive them with out them overheating and then they loose interest and sell for a big loss most the time.

Keep in mind that I do not think that this is for everyone and if you have a nice long hood car keep it that way or a reliable SC keep it a Flat-6 too. The group that I would recommend this to is the guys that have clapped out 75-77 cars with the big steaming 2.7 engines that are not worth much now and never will be compared to the other models.

The 77 was my choice due to:

cost = 7K and it ran
first year for power brakes
better rust proofing
Still lighter than an SC
but most all the 2.7 that ran but needed work. So I did not feel bad pulling it out.

So it is really a small number of cars that i would recommend this for and expect to pay around 10K+ to do it right.

[kstar]

If you want to go with a Porsche V8, use a Cayenne V8. I think it would be a cool but costly project to put a bi-turbo Cayenne V8 in a narrow bodied long hood.

If I had the money I might be trying to do the same now. Just for kicks . . .

Don't worry about what the "purists" say and have some fun. Life is way too short. Almost anything can be done for a price.

BR,

Kurt

[911pcars]

H20911 writes:

"Once you get over about 350hp and 350tq the cooling systems seem to have a tough time keeping up.:

....and that applies to the original Chevy body too. A friend of mine has a very quick solo 1 Camara Z28 (vintage '71). I asked him to join us for lunch laps at CA Speedway a few months ago but declined because he says his 400 HP built engine will overheat (okay for autocrossing however) despite a large radiator, the final gearing is too low (numerically high but good for autocrossing however) and the factory brakes are not up to the task (okay for autocrossing however). So apparently this is something to pay attention to should you decide to go that route in a 911.

IMHO, if you're going to go that far, install it midship behind the front seats and ahead of the transaxle. A V6 might take less shoe-horning but sounds more interesting.

Sherwood

[beepbeep]

Why is everybody assuming that every engine conversion must use SB V8?

[atlporsche]

thanks beep^2...

wanna make more power? find a wrecked turbo subaru forester. the 2.5 turbo is good for 400 hp EASY on the stock bottom end. and it's LIGHTER than a 911 engine...the 1.8L in the back of my 912 makes plenty of power and hasn't lost it's feel. the WRX going into the other car...well...that's gonna be fun.

what say you now??

sjd

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by atlporsche
what say you now??

where's the dry sump?


....



just giving you a hard time

[ettsn]

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
where's the dry sump?

Here: Subaru Dry Sump

FWIW, the WRX-motored 911 atlporsche mentioned is mine. Project is just underway, but I expect it to be about 350-400hp and about 2200#. Why a Subaru motor? Why not? It's lighter than a 911 motor, it's cheaper to buy, cheaper to modify and cheaper to fix. It's also a boxer 4 that looks remarkably similar to a 356/Type4 case and mates up to a 901/915/930/G50 gearbox using a readily available adaptor (lots of dune buggy guys do a similar swap). I saved my 911 from the crusher -- bought it sans drivetrain. This will make for a car that I don't mind flogging at the track and won't lose too much sleep should I ball it up or miss a shift. I promise it will have an absurd fun:dollar ratio. Isn't that what it's all about anyway?

-Paul

[JNadal]

Originally posted by ettsn
I promise it will have an absurd fun:dollar ratio. Isn't that what it's all about anyway?

-Paul

Fun? ... Fun?
911's arent about having fun.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by ettsn
Here: Subaru Dry Sump

Paul, are you using one of these? how much $?

I congratulate you on your project, and I see nothing wrong with it. Although there is always a critic (sitting on his butt in front of the computer instead of taking on a project), I think lots of people here enjoy new and innovative ideas. I encourage you to post more information and photos on this board about your project. I think you will be well recieved by many. (let me know if I have missed some things you have posted about the project)

[look 171]

I don't have an answer and I am not looking to piss off anyone.

Purist? Do they live in a house with the "right" architecture for both the inside and out. Does the interior fit the house. When you dish out the big bucks for that whole house remodel, did you go back to do a full restoration such as, no insulation in the walls. old iron pipes and not copper? I happen to like really cold dark beer. Do you drink it room temp. like you should? Ooooh the summer months, warm. Why it there so much $hit talking about the v8 911s. Just to let you know I have a flat six turbo in my a$$. I will not put a V8 in there. After all, it is about the drive and having fun, right?

Don't know who this guy is around the house, I can hear the big BIG V8 in the a$$ of that early 911. He rips my car a new a$$ hole every time he sees me (no, not a drag race. For some of you in the know, yes, that road between Pasdena and LA). Everytime I see him I say to myself: "I wish this f*cker will put that little 2.7 back. I know I can smoke him with my turbo. I know he had fun. Huge simle on his face everytime! As for me, tail between my legs, but then again the car is "correct" and smoked.

Oh, one more thing, for those of you that like to rip on the "ricers" you can belive me I don't like them one bit. But, they are just kids , that's what they do, that may be all they can affort. Ask em' if they like Porsches. See what that answer will be. Be cool, don't be a "snobbie" air cool owner.

[jhelgesen]

Gee, I made my bastard by adding a 911 motor to a 912e. I'm seriously considering the wrx power in a targa for my next project though, gotta be fun.

[atlporsche]

we'll let you drive porscharu II when it's done john...it's all about keeping a chassis on the road...an engineless chassis sucks, an engine on the floor of my garage sucks...

found a great site earlier...

INSANE POWER...

http://www.cgperformance.com/subaru_turn-key_motors.htm

those sandrail guys have it figured out...2.5L up to 460 HP!!!!

[jhelgesen]

that is crazy power. Why would anyone spend 8k on a vw based race motor and 200hp when you can have 300 on a mostly stock sub motor?