Can wait to have it
 

Hey guys, I just came across a mint 1978 911 SC. This will be my first Porsche and I am very excited to join the great unique Porsche community. I just want some advice on this car. Aside from a crappy paint job, the car is very, very clean. I could not find anything wrong with the car, however I am still taking it to go get inspected tomorrow. The deal I worked out with the seller is that I would give him the complete payment for the car in exchange for the vehicle to take to get inspected. If it was found to have any major mechanical problems, he would return my money and I would return the car. I was just wondering if anyone had done something like this before and how you would go about wording a contract like that. I look forward to your suggestions and to many good years in the forum.

pay for the car AFTER it has been inspected.

I know, i know. Believe me, he is very trustworthy guy. He doesnt have collision insurance, so for me to take it and crash it would put him out a lot of money. I we are both taking a slight risk here, thats why i am signing a contract before the exchange on money and the vehicle.

He is already down to 7k with an extra set of Fuch wheels. I think its a pretty good price. You tell me.

Your insurance, if you have another car, will cover you in his car. Call your agent. My insurance covers any car that I am buying or test driving.

I would not hand over $ apart from a couple hundred down payment without PPI. If you are worried about the drive, have it FLAT BED trailered there. Will cost you an extra $100, worth the piece of mind.

Believe me, once the money is gone, it will be a lot harder to get it back and trustworthy people may become very different - suddenly.

Be careful out there. Never fall in love with a car. There is TONS of these out there.

George

PS: 7k is a good price for an SC, however, a paint job is 5k, so it isn't a steal, unless the paint can actually wait.

The paint can wait, it was just sprayed on thick, so there was some running of the clearcoat. it might just clean up with a wetsand and a buff.

Yeah, if the paint is presentable from appropriate distance, 7k is a good price, pending a good PPI. Make sure the valve covers come off and the head studs are all checked, especially the lower ones. Also make sure the shop checks very carefully for body damage / previous wrecks.

Unless the car has been meticously maintained, there will be small things that need attention.

Again, make sure you don't rush into this.

Good Luck, George

Dont worry, im taking it to a porsche specialist tomorrow. I will make sure they check everything you have mentioned. Thanks for the advice.

I think your arrangement for the inspection is unusual to say the least. It only benefits the seller. It is totally one sided.

I am Jared's friend that helps him look at cars, figured I would chime in to add some more details. I see where the buyer is coming from with the fact that he doesnt want us taking it with just a deposit down on the car.
1)we are only 19
2)even if our insurance covered it, it would probably be a PITA and would cost the seller alot of time and cash to get his money for the version car
3)I am sure all of you have heard of escrow, well...think of this as a of an escrow.
The seller cannot come to the inspection as he has work. Towing would be minimum 150-200. I work for a towing company. I cannot borrow a wrecker or flatbed either, the state requires that you charge for all tows, regardless of who they are for, etc. Weird law here in CT. I guess I could rent a car trailer, but that still leaves us with the car alone and the seller wondering if his baby is alright.

The paint appeared to be enamel to me. The paint is all there, but it has sags, drips, runs, and pimples. It looks like a top of the line Maaco job to me. Car is rust free, I checked, did not appear to have accident damage and only leaked a tiny tiny bit of trans fluid (bottom fo the 915 was moist).

The car has a recently rebuilt engine and trans and there are reciepts for all the work. It has SSI heat exchangers, new factory porsche wires, K&N filter, brakes recently done, aftermarket sway bars, aftermarket shocks, etc. New battery, master cylinder, clutch, short shift kit. Clutch felt great, car ran below 200 for the whole 10 minutes test drive that I took it on with the seller. All it needs from what I could see is a fuel level sender, odometer work, and the front shift linkage bushing is severely worn out, its a real pain to get into 1st and 2nd if you arent thinking about where the shifter is going. It ran a little rough when could, but a guy I know said the CIS has a cold cicuit that can be adjusted.

The agreement we have written up is kosher (I buy and sell lots of vehicles), and major mechanical work is defined as anything over 1000 dollars or internal engine/trans work.

Theres no way I would hand over the money for a car, before the inspection, no matter how trustworthy you think he may be.

If he has to go to work, and can't take the car to be looked at, you could at very least find a vehicle inspector who will come to look at the car at his place.

I'm sure if you offer the local Porsche mechanic enough $$$ he will come out, and whilst may not be able to give a "Full" detailed inspection on site, should be able to tell you if its a car worth buying.

I wouldn't rush into it there are plenty of SC's around, and with porsches buying a bad one can be expensive.

Yes, a third party escrow agent would be good. If it was my car, I wouldn't let it go away w/o payment. IF it was my money I wouldn't pay the seller w/o a PPI.

doesn't the seller usually bring the car to the mechanic and the buyer pay? It seems that this might be a deal breaker for me now after having one of these machines for a while.
I didn't get a PPI when I bought my car and although I feel I got lucky, There were things that I would have liked to known about. Things that may have changed my mind.
Like Nostatic has said "many people can afford to buy a 911, not everyone can afford to keep them"
Feeling like I have been lucky can be discomforting. I don't like basing my life on hopes that I'll be lucky. I'm not preaching at you, I'm preaching at myself. You ARE going to a mechanic.

Guys, he isnt buying it tomorrow, allhe is doing is laying down a deposit, a large one at that, like an escrow so that we can take the car sans seller to get inspected, then pending inspection he will either get deposit back or seller will keep it and car is jareds.

I guess when I was 19, this was an okay arrangement as well. But don't say we didn't warn you.

Got any pics?

Guys, I'm smelling some trolls here. Actually pwd72S first suspected in Aaron's first post. In Aaron's first thread he claims to be a novice regarding 911's, but look at his posts here, he comes across as quite knowledgeable. And have any of you been the least bit curious about Aaron's and JL's last names?

This is all I have to say.

OK, it isn't. Assuming you aren't jerking us around making stuff up (which it really sounds like) An I am assuming this is the same friend you were talking about in the other thread, with the 901 trans 82.

A 19 year old buying a 911 is a bad idea. Some are mature enough not to kill themselves or someone else, most aren't. I sure as hell wasn't.

Blowing your entire budget for a used 911 is a bad idea.

$7K, freshly rebuilt with receipts? Receipts from who, Motermeister? A proper rebuild will cost as much or more than he is asking for the car. Something smells.

Fresh/cheap respray is probably hiding something.

Have you priced insurance? Insurance companies don't like teenage bays with sports cars.

My guess is you will buy the car, (probably when it fails the PPI miserably and the seller won't give your deposit back) and you are stuck with a POS that you can't afford to drive/insure.

Tom
You couldn't tell me a ****ing thing when I was 19 either. I knew everything.

Kurt V...you hit that nail on the head.

what tom said. and what jenny said too.

Giving the money to the seller and signing and contract and driving away with the car is NOTHING like 3rd party escrow. In most parts of the country you have bought the car, and the inpection won't matter at all. This sounds so fishy, be careful. A bad paintjob is a good indicator that other shortcuts have been taken. When we advise you to be careful it is because we don't want you to have a bad 911 experience.

I was 20 when I bought my first 911. I made some big-time mistakes, and sold the car for parts while I paid off my credit union for the next three years.

My thoughts, 16 years later is:

1) Bring an older person with you, someone grizzled and battle worn with 911's. Someone from your local PCA that you can buy dinner and a case of beer. People smell young blood at times, and, well, no offense, but they may try to test the parable about "a fool and their money"
2) Compression test and look at the head studs... don't skip this based upon receipts. I sold a 3.0 for a core that had full receipts. They put it back together with a broken stud!
3) Escrow the money with someone else if he doesn't want to part with the car, and cannot go along. Sellers sometimes put up small obstacles for a reason, if not only to increase buyer anticipation, and lower buyer sensibility.

Just my thoughts... I'm no old coot, and I know I hate it when people told me I was just a pup and making big mistakes. I must tell you though, it sucked driving my old beat up VW rabbit once I depleted all my funds buying the 71E that had cleverly disguided terminal body rot. It sucked paying for it for three years after it was gone too, which occupied $275 a month in the 80's while I was trying to get through college!

Sounds like the deal I had with my saiboat. Paid up front, with the understanding that the seller would rig, launch and deliver the boat.

yeah.

Things changed once he had that $$. Wasn't as quick to return calls... always seemed busy. Finally comes time to put her in the water. Rigs the boat, in a rush, grumpy. Complaining about how much time it's taking... missing other deals... it's a big hassle for him etc.. etc.. When I voice concerns about issues with the rigging he gets real defensive and finishes things up begrudgeingly. The contract stated that he was supposed to deliver boat, about 5 miles from where it was launched. As he's sailing it there, the rigging comes undone, his improperly made mast step collapses and the boat is dismasted. He calls me and says "come and get it".

His final words? "Sue me". Which is what I'm doing. Although I wouldn't have ha to if i hadn't HELD ONTO MY $$$$$. Don't pay until you have the goods, and you're happy with them. Simple.

Aigel was right when he said "once the money is gone, it will be a lot harder to get it back and trustworthy people may become very different - suddenly"

DO NOT PAY UNTIL YOU HAVE THE GOODS. You are not paying a deposit on a Porsche... at this point you are paying a deposit on Porsche parts. A Porsche is a running, driving vehicle. You don't know if that's what you have here.

No resonable person would expect you to pay $7000 on a car if he knew you would be bringing it back if there were any issues.

Have him add the car to his insurance under full coverage. He'll probably have to have it inspected but that should only take a quick trip to the nearest body shop that works with his insurance company - plain and simple, then drive the car down for the PPI.

You buy the car, he drops the coverage. Might cost him $1.00 in extra premium for the day or two he actually needs coverage. At that value he's selling it at it'll be a money maker for him if you do crash it (Last I checked it valued over $10K). If he doesn't have insurance presently then don't give him a dime - if you do it'll go to rent or something that you can't get back. The seller's reasoning simply isn't sound. I'd almost be insulted if I got that as a demand on sale- .

rjp

We took some of your advice (kurt v me and jared are NOT the same person or in the same family). I do alot of research, and this is how I have learned about 911's so quickly.

Tonight, instead of putting money down on it, A guy from my shop with over30 years of experience in the industry, including porsches is going to do the PPI for us, then we will decide.

Well if this post is not BS here is my 2 cents.

I never take a deposit on a car. Buyer and I agree on x number of days to conclude the transaction. I will not sell to another buyer even for a better price during that period. If deal is not concluded in agreed to time I move on.


I INSIST the buyer take it for a PPI. I'm am not a certified mechanic and can only attest to the cars history not future. You take it and have it looked at because after you pay me I don't want to see or hear from you again.

Never give money up front. Don't take this as an insult but it's just plain stupid.

Scott

I think you should just buy it sight unseen. It is the proper thing to do when you're 19.

yeah! Better yet, buy it sight unseen and THEN tell your folks you need to store it in their garage.

I should get my old man to give you a call... we had so many conversations like this when I was 19... he probably misses it.

I bought my first Porsche when I was 20. No inspection, didn't even know what to look for. it sounded nice, it looked nice, it ran nice and the price was right.

I got lucky, real lucky. almost 70,000 miles later it was still running great when I wrapped it around a tree due to my being an idiot and showing off.

The car you are looking at sounds good, if the inspection goes well you will have a good deal.
The idea of handing over the money first before an inspection makes me nervous but it's your money. If it makes sense to you, do it.

Just be sure to make your decisions using logic and not emotion. That is the hardest part, even for us ole farts.

For some future buyer reading this thread, I agree with BanjoMike (and his cusin' FiddleFred) -- I did not mean to imply that what had been proposed was safe for a buyer. A third party escrow agent can do this, just as they do with houses. Emphasis on _third_ party.

Sounds like this working out for you. Good luck on it.

Sounds like a bad idea all around. The only caveat is that if you're buying it for so cheap that you can still make out okay with a busted motor, or a clipped chassis, then go ahead...

-Wayne

So, did you have the car checked out? What's the verdict?

I think a "mint" Porsche with a crappy paint job is too good to pass up.