Cat is original. 131,000 on the car. All of the other numbers are well within range. The "smog tech" says the cat isn't suspect - it's running too rich.

In all honesty, I want my turbo to run rich. I just don't want it rich during the smog test!

If the O2 is new, then mixture change is for you! Get a 3mm allen and bend it to clear the top if the engine compartment and try an 1/8 turn at a time.

Alex

Dude, I feel your Pain
 

I just took my 911 SC in to e-chump today, and while the emissions passed in flying colors, the car failed the stupid GAS CAP leak inspection. I was suprised, since they have never been able to test this before, but i have dutifully ordered my new gas cap, with second day to Ohio.

Wankers. :mad:

Chuck

Emission, do you have a cam in that 930? What other Mods? I purchased my 930 a year ago w / all kinds of mods on it, didn't know it at the time. It passed the smog test fine. As I read the posts, I am so afraid and am pissing in my pants. one more year to enjoy it. Jeff

My mechanical mods are limited to a larger turbo (K-27) and a wastegate dump pipe. Neither should change smog readings.

With a recent tune & valve adjustment, new cap, rotor, plugs, and new O2 sensor... my issue is mixture. I am running too rich.

I wouldn't worry until you see the words FAIL on the screen.

Emission,

I have advised posters to lean their mixture many times. Since you are already at .81% CO and only have to get down to .61 I am concerned because that is both extremely low, and a very small amount of a change. It seems that 1/8 of a turn on the screw is worth about 1% so I would just nudge that screw down just a little. A Gunson Gastester is only accurate to .5% so I don't think one will help you.

Also, get that CO back up to the sweet spot ASAP after the test. .61% sounds absurdly lean to me.

OK, question time:
since his mixture is controlled by the lambda circuit, how is adjusting the mixture slightly going to change anything? Am I missing the boat?
Seems to me that unless you disconnect the O2 sensor or lean the adjustment out so far that the frequency valve goes out of range you aren't going to change anything except the mixture before the O2 sensor heats up and kicks in. I need to scratch my head on this one.

I had lots of problems with independent smog shops. Same with my wifes BWM. We ended up going to an independent shop that specializes in german cars.... no more problems. pass everytime. I really think that the smog only shops just don't know how to deal with german cars..

"Test Only" stamped atop your registration usually means you don't get to go to your favorite shop for certification. However, my car went to my mechanic to pretest, he set the A/F, then it went to the test only station.

A few extra bucks, sure, but small potatoes to get past this stressful time.

I just had my smog done this weekend and was very scared. I had to travel down to Woodland Hills to my regular guy as I passed before. Check out my results:

15 mph

CO2 14.1
O2 0.00
HC 47
CO .53
NO 783


25

CO2 14.1
O2 0.00
HC 90
CO .53
NO 848

cab83_750, what gear? Second both times? What RPM for each?

Congratulations on passing!

Not sure! I suspect he did something funny as my RPM ranges are:

15 mph 2,533
25 2,385

What RPM readings do u have?

Emission,

Remember a few months back when you were mocking me for you bought the 930 I was looking for!!!!!! That's karma (sp?) for you!!!!

BWAH! HAR! HAR1



Just kidding man. I loved your car. Hope you pass next time around.

15 mph in 1st @ 1959 RPM

25 mph in 2nd @ 1939 RPM

Having a tall 4-speed sucks for this test.

I never drive the car at such a low RPM. :mad: I'm not in the mood to deal with it this weekend, so next week I'll work on the mixture and get it tested again - and pass, of course.

Oh, after I pass I'll rig a device to pump diesel fuel into the exhaust (like those acrobatic planes) and leave white contrails as I drive by each DMV.... yahoooooo....... :p

But that's after the cat, remember. Before the cat it may be as high as 2%.

So how can that be so absurdly lean?

Joe

Emission, we both failed CA smog this week. Turns out in my case the oxygen sensor was indeed bad. Replaced it with the universal type and the improvement was dramatic.

I posted the latest results in the first post of this thread:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/177094-ca-smog-test-failure-unexpected-results-help.html


Are you sure your new oxy sensor is connected properly?

You just planted a seed of doubt.

My new 02 sensor is in-line with a new air/fuel mixture reading device (spliced off the same wire). The 02 sensor is in, but I still haven't hooked up the device (loose wire right now). When I hook it up, it will confirm operation of the 02 sensor.

Once again, too lazy for a "this weekend" project. Maybe Monday night...

stlrj,

Good point. I forgot about the cat. I don't have/need one on my car here in Ontario.

BTW do you know:

1 Were these cars required to run @ .61 back when new?

2 Is a rise from .61 to about 2 % typical for after cat versus pre cat measurements?

sammyg2,

I think what we who were advocating leaning the mixture were thinking was that, since the O2 sensor was working correctly (which now may not be correct) then leaning by turning the mixture screw may bring the CO down. I'm thinking that maybe even something like a WUR could be slightly off, which could also be adjusted, if reqd. All this as long as everything else is OK...frequency valve, thermoswitch, cold start injector not leaking, etc. etc,etc.

Paul,

I believe 0.61% is an allowable maximum as the cat ages and losses its effectiveness. If the cat were new, the CO at the tailpipe would most likely be so low as to be hardly measureable.

Joe

The problem is your CAT. They don't last forever, and 18 years is unusually long.
Even with the way its tuned now, you should expect to see results of less than .02%CO and 5ppm of HC with a new CAT.

How much is a new CAT? :(

You CAN test the cat.....stick the probe in a test hole prior to the cat and get a reading....or remove it and do the same. My cats are after the 02 sensor....I used that for a test port.

I was wondering the same, so I looked. The factory cat is like $1400!!!! But you can get a free flowing aftermarket cat for $420 right here at PP! It's sporty, it's green, it's shiney and new!

In August, after failing the smog test, I got busy with work so I got an extension from the DMV and basically parked my car for a few months.

Now, I want to drive it again so I had it tested. Well, I failed the smog test again today. This is after I replaced the fuel filter and "leaned" the engine out (to the point it would barely idle). Personally, I think the RPM of the engine was way too low... :( barely above idle with a load!

I think I need a new CAT. I hear the State of California will help pay for repairs. Will they help pay for a CAT?


ORIGINAL TEST IN AUGUST:

15 MPH - 1959 RPM

CO2 - 13.88
O2 - .46
HC - 47
CO - .82
NO - 292

25 MPH - 1939 RPM

CO2 - 13.90
O2 - .41
HC - 36
CO - .81
NO - 259


TEST TODAY:

15 MPH - 1240 RPM

CO2 - 14.08
O2 - .81
HC - 71 = PASS
CO - .74 = PASS
NO - 713 = PASS

25 MPH - 1375

CO2 - 14.00
O2 - .89
HC - 51 = PASS
CO - .74 = FAIL
NO - 51 = PASS

This is crappy news for me...

I had my car running freakin perfect and I got my 1 yr renewal.

2% of Californians get a 'random' smog check requirement. Statistics doesn't work for me when I play the lottery but with the CA DMV, boy howdy I'm one of the 2% this time around!

It's extortion AFAIC. Bloody extortion. More questions in a new topic...

Yeah they will. At least they used to. Go to the DMV website for details. As I recall, when I had to get a CAT for my older pickup, you need to call the Bureau of Auto Repair and let them know you failed a 'Test Only' smog check. They will send you an application for a $500 repair voucher. Unless you are very low income, you pay the first $100.

One drawback is they will force you to take it to one of their affiliated repair stations. The one I went to was quite lame. Maybe you'll have better luck.

On my truck, the voucher covered the entire repair (new CAT). However, on the P-car it may not cover even half???

Good luck with it. Upside is you'll probably never need to sweat the test again.

[edit]:
Try this link:
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPage.asp?Body=/geninfo/factsheets/Consumer_Assistance_Program-Sep_2004.htm

Thanks. I will call them tomorrow and report back in this thread... :D

OK... here is where I stand. After "resting" through the holidays, I decided to attempt to get my 930 smogged again...

Today, I paid my mechanic to take it to "his guy" and get it smogged for me. It was $150, but I was pretty sure to pass.

I failed (barely) - again. Same thing, too much CO. He leaned the mixture, and the LAMBDA control kept making it rich again at that low RPM. Grrrrr.....

My wrench did some investigating and found the smog pump belt gone (it spins free - so it's not seized). He also suspects the (original with 130,000 miles) CAT is bad.

So, here is what I am going to do...

Pay my wrench to put a new belt on the smog pump (belt + labor = $200). Have him smog it again ($100).

If it fails, I take the car home and buy an aftermarket CAT ($505 + $60 in parts/gaskets) and put it on myself. Then, I smog it again. It should pass.

So, this frickin' CA Smog experience has cost me a minimum $360 (original smog $60 + new charges $300) and could cost me upwards of $950! Damn Kalifornia!

(Oh, in any case... the CAT is coming off when this hell is over - it's test pipe time. I'll put the CAT back on every two years.)

Thanks for letting my cry on your shoulders...

Hey man, that's what this over-legislation forces the consumer to do! Protect the really expensive CAT by test-piping between renewals!

A tad ironic that the tight rules about smog and the high cost of replacement end up contributing to worsening the environment they were designed to protect.

BTW, I think with those numbers you should be ok once the smog pump is operational. Make sure to change the little smog pump air filter as well!

Good luck

Hmmm, if you knew someone with analyzer....you could do the changes and then test for FREE....hmmmmm, who could that be?

I know, I know... you offered your services to me way back in August (when I thought this was just a minor hurdle).

If I don't pass tomorrow, I'll be sure to take you up on your very kind offer! :D

My wrench (RS Enterprises in Ventura, CA - 30 miles from here) says the belt is about $40. The labor is 1.5 - 2 hours @ $85 (or whatever he charges).

In nearly three years, the only thing I have every paid a wrench to do on my car is a valve job and an electrical issue (and I've done 99% of everything else). At this point, I am writing checks to make the problem go away... away... away... ;)

Yes, I'll light my real wood-burning fireplace tonight in honor of the smog gods!!!! :D

Know anyone with a tester that has a new 386 motherboard in it? :rolleyes:

Did you ask the test only station about the Consumer Assistance Program, CAP, which if you qualify will mean you only pay $100 of the $500 limit and the governator picks up the rest.

I went that route when my Grand Caravan failed the test only and I got a new cat for only $100.

Can you beat that?

-Joe

Yes, I applied under the "Repair Assistance: Test-Only Eligible Applicant" program. I'm waiting for a reply.

After I pay the first $100, they will pay the next $500. Unfortunately, a retail installation of a CAT (part and labor) could be much more than that...

1st: Smog pump belts are less than $10 here at PP

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_enginD_pg1.htm#item1

It should take about 10 minutes if you have never done it before! This will make a difference. Leave it connected when you are done, it sucks less than 1/4 hp and cleans the exhaust.

2nd: The second test was done improperly. Their rule book says to do the test in 2nd gear UNLESS using second gear causes the engine to run slower than 1500 rpm (or faster than 2500?). I'd go back to that test place and make them read their rulebook, and make them do it again for free. (once you've installed the belt!)

Interesting - and a valid point.

The smog pump belt was installed... and the car failed again (it never completed the test, they shut it down before the red flag). It appears the CAT is shot. :mad:

Emission,
I am in the same boat as you. Previous owner of my turbo replaced the cat with a bypass and I am just barely failing the smog test here in Nevada. Carl's Place (local wrench) cannot get it to pass without a new cat. Here is my dilemma. I just purchased a monty exhaust off the board and wife will flip if I buy another exhaust just to pass emissions. As I type there is a cat and muffler on ebay for $250.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7950126047&catego ry=33630

If you end up buying one, I will GIVE you my test pipe if I can borrow it.

I am going to try disabling an injector first and will see if John Walker's suggestion works.

JP

I think I just solved two birds with one stone...

I am going to "borrow" a good CAT for the test, then "gut" my CAT when it is off the car. After the test, I put my CAT back on... and I essentially will have a test pipe. Now, that won't help me in 8/06 (when my next smog is due)...

See if you can borrow a CAT for the test...

Maybe we can form a C-Gruppe. Stands for cat borrowers. I am serious about this one...