Bilstein HD vs Sports

[vesnyder]

Trying to get a better appreciation of the HD vs Sports Bilstein tradeoffs and what the Pelicans prefer. I have a Cab and am in the process of replacing my shocks and tie rods. I use mine primarily for spirited street driving and the occasional Auto-X.

What set-up do you prefer?

[Joeaksa]

Vance,

85 Targa here and went with Steve Weiner's of Rennsport suggestion of HD up front and sport in the rear. He makes a good argument for using HD in the front as the sport flavours are too stiff unless you want to lose your fillings on the bumps.

Have run this setup for two years now and am very happy with it. Would not go with anything else now!

No matter who you order them from, pls insist that they include a shock nut wrench in the box. Its free from Bilstein but many of the suppliers forget about it.

Joe

[vesnyder]

Joe - Thanks for the suggestion about the shock nut wrench - what is it used for?

I am strongly considering the same set-up, but don't want to have any regrets.

[NoLift911]

I went through this a couple of years ago. I went with HD's all around on my 84 Carrera. The ride is firm, no doubt. I wouldn't call it tooth filling jarring though. My car came with the Bilstein green sport shocks. Only draw back I see is green struts with yellow rears. I will paint the rears to match someday with the Bilstein green.

The car handles great on the track and the ride on the street is probably just right. I am also running 17 Cup II as well.

-Jeff Kramer
nolift911@hotmail.com

[dtfastbear]

I went with Sports all around on my '86 cabriolet. I wouldn't call the ride "jarring", but I live in Northern California where the roads tend to be in 'decent' shape. If I still lived in NYC, I might rethink my decision.

I've found the car to be very well balanced with this setup - for the street, autocross and the track.

I don't think you'll have any regrets with any of the three setups - all HD, HD/Sport combo or all Sport. The differences aren't dramatic.

Have fun and good luck,

Dean

[Joeaksa]

Vance,

There is a large nut or collar on the top of the strut that holds the shock cartridge in the strut. You can remove and reinstall this nut using a large pair of vice grips or monkey wrench but why not do it right?

Also its impossible to check the torque when re-assembling the unit with anything but the proper wrench and this is something I do not want coming loose!

The special wrench is free from Bilstein but often forgotten from the sellers so just ask for it when ordering. If they forget it, Bilstein will send you a free one simply by calling...


Joe

[Vipergrün]

I went with the Sports all the way around on my SC. I love it, even on the crappy SoCal roads. I also cut down the rubber bump-stops per the tech tip on the smart-racing.com site, which made a big difference on shock rebound. YMMV, but I like this setup. My SC came with the *Sport Package* from the factory, which included the Sport shocks in the rear, not sure about the fronts.

[sammyg2]

"There is a large nut or collar on the top of the strut that holds the shock cartridge in the strut. You can remove and reinstall this nut using a large pair of vice grips or monkey wrench but why not do it right? "

Wow, on my SC the front bilstein inserts are held in with a roll pin on the bottom, no nut on top of the strut housing, just a bushing and seal.
Is there more than one style of bilstein struts on these cars? Maybe i'm just confused (again).

Also, when replacing the struts i found some very old, very dirty grease in the strut housing. I cleaned it out the best I could are replaced it with a little bit of clean grease. Was that the right thing to do? Anyone know how much is supposed to be there?

[Argo]

HD's all around and very happy with spirited street driving. FWIW, Bilstein recommends against mixing HD's and Sports, but many here have done just that and I've never read a negative report about the results.

Argo
88 Targa

[Jdub]

Gerald:

I believe the grease was in there to damp any sound between the insert and the body of the housing.

John

[Joeaksa]

Sammy,

You are correct and I needed to put a disclaimer about the different types of shocks and forgot it! Getting old...

The "pure bilsteins" have exactly what Sammy is describing. The Boge and Koni units have a nut at the top of the strut holding the shock inside.

Our cars came with three possible options for shocks. They normally came with the Boge but could be ordered with Bilstein struts as an option I believe. Possibly the "S" versions had this as stock, not sure. Very few except the very early cars came with the Koni units as stock.

A Boge type housing will accept a Bilstein shock as long as its specified that its for a Boge housing. Bilstein makes a cartridge that slides right in place of the Boge shock. They as well make a complete replacement for a "Bilstein type strut" where you replace the entire unit. Two different animals...

Hope this helps...

Joe

[vesnyder]

Just want to get everyone's participation! The combo ride is winning. I am going to purchase mine from the results of this poll!

[kristian85]

On a pure engineering issue for fast street driving, I'd likely go with matched front/back as Bilstein recommends, and stay away from Sports on Cabs and Targas as the extra stiffness is merely transferring more energy into body structure, making it flex more. Similar reason for staying away from thick swaybars/stiffer suspension on the open-roof cars.

If Bilstein recommends it, there must be a good reason.

That's why I voted 12 times for the HD/HD.

[vesnyder]

Kristian - Thanks for the input, but one vote is more than enough. Thanks for screwing up my poll! I know you are probably smarter than the rest of us ...

[Randy W]

Hate to be the fly in the ointment, but if only the occasional autocross is planned, I would stay with just regular Blisteins front and rear on a cab. I'm all for performance, but if the roads you travel are rough, the HD or Sport shock stiffness may bother you. Just my .02.

[DANNOV]

I have Bilstein Sport Shocks front and rear, with stiffer torsion bars (21mm/27mm) on my 1985 Targa. I love the setup. I also live in Chicago, generally poor streets and roads with lots of potholes. I can't say the I am bothered by the roughness of the ride, it is acceptable. I can't wait for the Spring to get this car on the track, it seems to handle really well.

[Milu]

I've confused myself with which colour is which and whether sports or HDs are stiffer and it's too late and cold to go out and have a look at my car.

However, I've found that the stiffer bilsteins on the rear gives more control in road use, most of the time. This is my preferred set-up.

There are some surfaces where this set up feels strange as the different damping rates can make the car feel out of control. On such surfaces the other combinations I've tried on 911s (all 3.2s in this instance), boge, konis, oe bilstein setup were also pretty poor, just not quite so horrid. I have found few surfaces like this.

[kristian85]

Snyder, relax. Of course I didn't vote 12 times.

[Tinker]

I just installed a set of sports for the rear of my 930. I thought the right rear original (?) HD (green) Bilstein was shot the way the car wallowed on left handed curves.

To my surprise, when I removed them and checked them I found both to be in good shape (114K on the car) with noticable resistance when attempting to compress by hand, although the rubber stop that runs on the shock shaft was destroyed on the right rear.

The sports are DEFINATELY firmer. I would say almost too firm.
(I am only 35 and also have an early car with a full sport suspension and BIG torsion bars so I am no overly sensitive seasoned citizen) I would suggest sticking to the green heavy duties if you are not planning some serious track time or aggressive driving. I am hoping they are going to soften up or I may swap them with an older set that are currently on my track car.

Tinker

[RallyJon]

There's a topic that I'm surprised is never addressed in these discussions:

I don't have experience with 911 suspension, but I have a lot with other cars. It is absolutely critical to properly match the damping with the springs. How can anyone talk about which shocks are best without discussing which torsion bars are used?

Of course you'll get a choppy ride if you run stiff dampers with stock torsion bars. Likewise if you don't run uprated shocks with huge bars, your car will ride badly, but in a different way.

It would be very helpful if someone would post some rules of thumb, such as, "From stock up to 19/25, HDs are properly matched to the spring rates. From 19/25 to 22/28, Sport damping is required to control the spring rates. Above 22/28, you should have dampers valved accordingly."

That sort of information is available for every other car, why not 911s?