Ignition switch

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 04:55 AM

How does one pull the ignition switch from a 77 911? Are there bolts under the dash or is it something else?

Thanks,

David

golfnow · 08-13-2004, 09:42 AM

Two shear bolts through the dash, also one alen screw with a lock
nut for the wheel lock under the dash

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 09:45 AM

How do I get the cover plate off that I am guessing hides the shear bolts? Not sure what shear bolts are but I sure I will figure out once I locate.

Thanks,

David

john walker's workshop · 10:00 AM

twist the cover to unscrew it. two break-off bolts and two pop rivets were stock. drill out the rivets, and drill shallow holes in the bolt heads and use a stubby easy out, or just drill until the heads come off. insert yourself head first upside down under the dash with a maglight in your teeth. remove all three plugs for t/signal, wiper and ignition to clear the area. loosen the 13mm locknut at the steering column and use a wobbly tip, long 4mm allen socket to loosen the allen screw two turns. if you totally remove it, it's a pain to get it started back in the hole. then it's a wiggle it out, wiggle it in thing. you may have to insert the key to retract the lock tab if it won't reinstall all the way.

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 10:09 AM

Thanks JW. Now before I go and start breaking stuff, I just want to check the ignition connections for a drain I am having on my battery. A couple guys said that was the problem they had when they couldn't find the drain.

While I have your attention (hopefully still) I am wondering if my setup for checking for a drain is wrong. I hooked my voltometer between my negative battery post and the ground bolt the strap goes to. I didn't actually take the negative cable off but I do have a switch that I use to disconnect the ground cable which I did turn off. I started pulling fuses while checking to see if the voltage dropped on my meter which it never did. I though maybe it was two paths that were bad so I pulled all the fuses and relays(front and back), disconnected the CDI and the pin connector in the engine compartment and still had voltage showing (same as before). Is my set up wrong? Someone earlier said it was because he said there would always be a voltage read with that setup. I am thinking that if all switches and wires are working correctly, the path of electricity should be cut off because all the switches are off (in a car with out a short).

Do I need to go between (with voltometer) the positive post and the postive wire that connects on to it for this to work. Oh, not sure why I disconnected the pin connector and cdi, I just remember my alternator ran over in that direction when I did it a few years ago.

Thanks,

David

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 10:12 AM

Thanks Marty. Are these shear bolts common or do I need to order from a parts store such as Pelican?

Thanks in advance.

David

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 10:28 AM

HI Marty,

What is the voltometer telling me then. When I connected to the two points I mentioned earlier, the needle took off. Doesn't that mean voltage is there which it shouldn't be if everything is working well. I would think the needle wouldn't move at all. I am confused. Any insight appreciated.

Thanks,

David

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 11:36 AM

Alright Electricity 101.

Series:Battery neg post -->meter pos term-->meter-->meter neg term-->grounding point on car frame.

Parallel -Positive post-->wire off splits goes to two seperate lights and then goes back togther. If one light blow out the other light will stay on because path is still there.

So the voltage is there but no current which I think is amps. Ohms is resistance, A=V*O I think, not this matters but just to prove I have tried to learn and am not just sucking this site of knowledge, though it sure feels like it sometimes.

So there can be voltage that is just sitting there because there is no path or energy user to take it or is the voltometer just sending a false reading?

What is the symbol for Amps, maybe my $5 meter has it.

Thanks Marty

john walker's workshop · 02:19 PM

set the meter to mA. 35mA is acceptable to keep the battery from getting drawn down too quickly. i doubt it's the ignition switch. stuck relays, hood or glovebox light, the alternator windings, stereo amps and alarms, all are common draws. disconnect stuff until the draw goes away. domelights turned off, clock unplugged, fuses out of the amp and alarm curcuits, etc, etc.

6 Shooter · 08-13-2004, 01:04 PM

I know that JW mentioned "stereo amps and alarms" and "fuses" for same, but depending on who installed your radio (if digital), pull the fuses for both the power (ign on/access 12v) and memory (constant 12v). Sorry if this is redundant &/or too anal....
If you have the green knob, brass, quick disconnect switch between your neg. batt. terminal and the ground cable, the newer version has a small wire to supply 12v to the radio memory and clock. Too small to supply required amps to crank/start eng but can still complete the circuit and give you a false reading (parallel instead of series). HTH.

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 05:24 PM

Thanks Eveyone for your help. Marty thanks for the explanation. I t really helps my understanding alot.

My meter does have Ampheres. I next totally disconnected the ground cable from the post. I went under the car and disconnected both cables off the starter motor, all the fuses and relays are out that I can see but I am still getting AMP. I think 50. The meter is set to 500. 50 or .5 and the thing tips off the squale instantly. At 500 it stops at 50. Now since I disconnected the wires from the starter, the connector and cdi in the rear compartment along with everything else I mentioned, does this eliminate the alternator?

Thanks again guys,

David

john walker's workshop · 08-13-2004, 05:40 PM

the smaller red wire on the starter post that the battery cable attaches to is the hot wire to the alternator. so leave that off and reattach the battery cable to eliminate the potential alternator draw.

Argeo · 08-13-2004, 06:35 PM

Geez, you guys are relentless. I am signing off for the night but this is where I am at this time. I removed all the fuses, relays I could find (trunk, engine compartment,, two big relays that are under the dash but accessible from under the front hood. I removed the two big wires off the starter but didn't remove the little two inch wire that goes between the starter body and the solenoid. I removed the CDI, the pin connector in engine compartment, the fuse panal from the body looking for any stray wires touching the body, disconnected the hood light and inside lights though they never worked anyways. Removed fuses for aftermarket stereo and one other, not sure what for. I do have a copy of my wiring harness, I will locate in the morning and go from there. ANy other relays that are accessible? I just thought there is a electrical box under the driver seat and and ampphifier under the passenger seat. The box under the drivers sear I thought was dead, not even sure what it is for. It says FAC 1 Fuel Control unit for K Jetronic made in Laguna, CA, obviously aftermarket. My car is a 77 911 3.0 Carrera. Not sure this thing even did anything, the wires going to are in rough shape, one is cut. I just disconnected but still have amphs.

Anyways, that is where I am. Thanks again for all your help guys.

David

golfnow · 08-14-2004, 02:11 AM

If you have to remove the ignition switch use a dremel
to cut slotes in the shear bolt then use a large flat bladed
screw driver and turn them out like screws. Mine had lock
tight on them and it still worked.

6 Shooter · 08-14-2004, 05:37 AM

I think that if you had a frayed wire rubbing against the body/chassis (ground), you would have blown a fuse or melted/toasted the insulation and wiring.

If this was my car, I would take the time and step back for a little while... you have everyone trying to help you here. What started out as 'removing the ignition switch' and explaining what shear bolts are... has gone fast forward to disassembly of every electrical connection on, under, and around your car!

Just three posts ago, you just mentioned that you have a '77 with a 3.0... and you have someone who previously mentioned that he just bought his '87 Carrera three weeks ago who (is also trying to help) wants you to 'remove' (disconnect?) what he thinks that you don't (might not?) need because of one cut wire? This ECU under the driver's seat might not be aftermarket (possibly) but rebuilt/checked by a comp. in Laguna?? If it is aftermarket, you won't find it on the '77 schematic. *If* your '77 has Webers/PMO, then maybe you don't need it ;-) , but you haven't told us all of the necessary info *because* this started out as an *ignition switch removal*. I know that he is trying to help you (as everyone else) but if you are not familiar with the abbreviations on a volt/ohm meter, I don't know if I would ask you to disassemble the electrical switch on the back of your ignition switch.

Personally, I don't think that it's your ignition switch. I've seen some problems of arcing causing high resistance. I haven't seen a poor connection in an ign. switch drain current when shut off. If the ign. switch stayed on, wouldn't the gauges/pk brk light stay lit?

I am sorry for the length and do not mean to step on anyone's toes. The info that JW gave was important. I think that it when it switched from a mechanical problem (ign sw removal) to electrical that you need to include all of the info (eng convers.) so that you get the right help/info. Just want to make sure that you can start your car after this is done. If I am totally wrong here, tell me and I will delete this.

RoninLB · 08-14-2004, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 6 Shooter

toes.

it's not perfect, but it's a nice objective post imo.

Argeo · 08-15-2004, 08:38 AM

Thanks guys, I am going to hold off on the ignition switch for now. I'll tinker around a bit today if I get a chance. Hopefully it's the powerwindows, they are coming out today to swap for manuals. Not part of my hunt for the drain, it is something I have wanted to do for a while and I am now stripping the car apart so it seemed like a good time to do.

Thanks,

David