Paint & Body experts - your opinion on this damage wanted, please!

KobaltBlau · 09-02-2004, 09:53 PM

I have a 911 that has a documented $9,000 paint job from a couple of years ago (when the PO owned it).

Tonight I was doing a few things on the car to prepare for a road trip over the weekend. I had one door open against a brick wall, with a cloth on the edge to protect the door. I was looking for a tool and decided to stack a wayward wheel, and I threw this wheel up onto the stack.

When I did this, the wheel knocked a huge 7' piece of angle iron with a triangle and circle welded on to it, probably about 40 lb. It was hanging on a flimsy nail in the wall and is apparently a remnant of some remodel on the house between 1905 and now. Anyhow, I had let it hang there because if it fell it wouldn't hit the car, but since the door was open, the end of it did hit the door. Here are some photos of the damage, the car is dirty but the paint job is (was) actually very very nice:

overall view: position of damage can be seen, as well as stack of tires and brick wall involved.

detail of damage:

and a zoom in on that:

Clearly the paint is completely chipped off in the area, which is about the size of a nickel. It appears to be down to some sort of primer or galvanized layer, a dull gray. The damaged spot is not significantly dented, but I think it is dented a very slight bit, well within the realm of paintless dent repair (no filler).

My feeling now (aside from all the things I did wrong here) is that it won't be possible for this paint to look as good as it did when it was stripped to the base layer and totally repainted unless it is stripped and totally repainted again. This is not an option for time and money reasons both. I would also like to avoid painting any panels aside from the door, and if the painting can be confined to a small sub-area of the door, that would be good. I am also wishing the damage was on the passenger side so I would notice it less often, but, alas, it isn't.

Anyone have an opinion on the best way to repair this damage? perhaps KevinP73 or some of the other knowledgeable body people, or people that have had work of this kind performed?

Thank you all very much!

KobaltBlau · 10:10 PM

paint was perfect everywhere on the car before this. Series900 might have an opinion too.

I guess what I was trying to say above is that I have a preference for painting less over having a perfect match. Touch up paint on this area ain't gonna cut it, though!

Milu · 09-02-2004, 10:09 PM

It looks an easy repair. That being said, on what seems to be a pristine car the only real choice is a good bodyshop and paint the whole door. I think that is the only way it won't show up.

As a stopgap you can touch it up yourself so it doesn't hit the eye quite so much but resign yourself to a few days at a bodyshop sooner or later.

On the positive side: one needs a couple of scars on pristine bodywork to relax and go out enjoy the car without worrying so much

after all it's got to go in for bodywork anyway!

KobaltBlau · 09-02-2004, 10:13 PM

Milu, thanks for your input. This being a dark metallic color, it might be difficult to paint the door and have a good match with neighboring panels, right?

My top choice for body shop is the same shop that did the complete paint job a couple of years ago, but I'm still not sure they can get a perfect match on the paint.

Milu · 09-02-2004, 10:28 PM

The difficulty with metallics is not so much matching the colour as the rate it changes. This is as much to do with the lacquer coat yellowing as anything. On your colour and on the whole door I don't believe it will show. My daily driver is seal gray metallic and looked pristine when I got it. A few years later I have a large smear in a different colour on a partially painted wing, it was a perfect match when I took it home, if the whole wing had been done it would not be noticable. I've just done a door touch up similat to yours and the colour has changed enough with time that the colour difference sticks out like a sore thumb. A stopgap until I get it done properly.

KobaltBlau · 09-02-2004, 10:31 PM

interesting, Milu, Thanks! It seems that if they use the same paint and techniques they used with the whole car, it should look similar for a long time, right?

My color is Pacific Blue Metallic, in case anyone wants to know. it's pretty dark, about halfway in between petrol blue metallic and the later midnight blue metallic.

Porschekid962 · Porschekid962's Garage

Until you get it fixed I suggest you put a little primer on any exposed metal to keep rust out. That being said, respraying the door shouldnt be that tough, sand the whole thing down to primer. Spray primer, repair the ding, final primer and sand, base and clear. Only problem with the clear would be different brands and different kinds of clear. Polymer resin versus older clear coats. It is a dark metallic grey so I wouldnt think matching the color would be that tough unless your clear coat has faded in the sun. Wouldnt worry about it though, If you have a compressor you could do it yourself, I think spraying is kinda fun. Many early mornings were spent at school painting older kid's 5th scale car models.

Matt Smith · 12:17 AM

Kobalt- sorry to see the accident. That's half the problem with an old garage. Ideally you should opt for a more modern one. Mine is 1910. No problems yet!

You have inadvertantly touched on bodyshop 101 in this repair though, and it's a really common theme: A large panel has a small dent- how can I repair it with the minimum ammount of refinishing?

In short, you can't. Best thing with paint is to THINK BIG! You need to repair the dent/paint and BLEND with as much surrounding bodywork as is feasible. A key example is a hood: small dent, 2K finish. Soloution is you will have to do the whole hood, so you may as well accept it.
To blend a metallic will most likely involve blending in to the surrounding areas too. This is how you trick your eye into not noticing it.

Think big, and you will sleep easier.

Edit: small dents in big panels that do not involve paint dammage MAY be repairable through 'paintless dent removal'. A better option in all respects, as you retain the original paint.

Series900 · 09-03-2004, 02:04 AM

repair dent, feathering the paint layers back via sanding, 180-320, giving it the topographical map look, epoxy prime, hifill prime, block out, base color seal, remove mirror, or at least loosen and pull wires up to tape to vent window, remove outer door handle, pry off belt line molding. 400 most of door, 600 on outer areas, apply best attained match of base coat, you did spray out test panels and clear them?! appply base coat to color hiding, blend out metallic staying well inside door, clear entire panel, wet sand buff, reinstall all parts.

"Doc, its only a scratch, I'll be better soon as I am able" Rocky Raccon

KobaltBlau · 09-03-2004, 05:55 AM

Thanks so much to everyone, especially Damon's very detailed response. I like that solution! I appreciate it guys, you are easing my mind on this. Any other opinions are still welcome!

As far as the old garage is concerned, I think I've learned my lesson on letting things hang near the car, which was the real problem here. Although it is still not possible to prevent all accidents, of course.

Much appreciated,

KobaltBlau · 09-03-2004, 07:05 AM

I talked to the shop that painted the car, and they said they might be able to paint just the door, but they might want to blend into the surrounding bodywork. I'd rather not blend, even if I can notice the difference a little now and more in 5 years. The car doesn't see too much sun (rarely sits outside).

I'm assuming if I take it to the same shop that painted the car it will be easier for them to get a really good match that will last over time, buecause they'll know what they did in the first place. Is this true or can another shop achieve the same quality match as easily?

Thanks again,

Zeke · 09-03-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
I talked to the shop that painted the car, and they said they might be able to paint just the door, but they might want to blend into the surrounding bodywork. I'd rather not blend, even if I can notice the difference a little now and more in 5 years. The car doesn't see too much sun (rarely sits outside).

I'm assuming if I take it to the same shop that painted the car it will be easier for them to get a really good match that will last over time, because they'll know what they did in the first place. Is this true or can another shop achieve the same quality match as easily?

Thanks again,

I think you are fortunate to know who did the paint and wise to take the car back to them. They will at least know what brand they used and that will be immensely helpful. As to the amount to blend, that's up to them, but Damon has the method I would pursue.

BTW, if the car, for some reason, is single stage now. I would consider clearcoating the entire car.

Sorry for the mishap, it happens to the best of of us. As you may know, I had been doing major body work earlier this year to my 911. I had just finsihed the hood and had it in primer when a pole from a canopy fell into the hood end first. Ouch. At least it wasn't a week old paint job.

KobaltBlau · 09-03-2004, 10:31 AM

Thank you, Milt.

A couple of other things from the original body shop. They inidicated that the dull grey finish is probably a self-etching primer, so I won't need to worry about it rusting. I plan to have it fixed sooner rather than later.

I really don't think the car is single stage, but thank you for the suggestion, perhaps it will be useful to future searchers.

Also, I found a couple of deep sctratches 2/3 down the door from when the door swung back into the still falling angle iron. I wonder if Damon's suggestion "blend out metallic staying well inside door" is still valid, or if he would want to paint the entire door. I think my local guys will want to paint at least the whole door. I'd like to limit it to that as a maximum.

RickM · RickM's Garage

I'd say the majority of shops would go the route that your shop suggested. One danger is they have to expand further and further if the blend isn't seamless. I've seen entire cars painted because they were too hard to match.

...so to Damons point, start small and work from there.

Paulporsche · 09-03-2004, 11:37 AM

Go back to the original guys. They probably have a record not only of the original materials used (if still available) they may even know who did the original spray, so you can have the same painter do the work.

s5uewf · s5uewf's Garage

I don't think you should be in too much trouble with this.
I just had a dent on my fender arch fixed - similar in scope.

The current technologies allow dents to be pulled without
overworking the metal using a copper star electrode type
deal. Then, they can take a chip of paint or punch in a
code either way - and match the paint on a computer.

It is amazing to me how the colors can be matched.

I paid $300 for my dent to be completely pulled, painted,
clearcoated, and buffed. You cannottell there was any work done.

It isn't free, but it isn't too bad, either.

Good luck!

hkspwrsche · 08:00 AM

KB,
It would be nice if the shop is using the same materials or even still has the formula print out on your original records. If not then they can do a few spray outs (as series said)on a test card to check the color and make sure the metallics are the same size and the alternate colors are narrowed down. Suggest that you will pay a little more to match it and pay for test spray outs. Ask for the manager when you go in the shop to make sure he monitors the progress and can express you concerns to the painter.

If it was done recently it is almost definitely base/clear urethane. Ask if they still use the same clear coat and products as when the original was done. Not all clears are as clear. some (like dupont) have more tin and have a yellowish tint even in the cup right after it's mixed. Where as transtar and ppg are more clear. that might slightly change the color especially on lighter silvers and whites. If you can disassemble the door that will save you some money but, either way make sure nothing is taped off because you need the the clear you wrap around all the edges. The base color will be locked in by the clear and looks like it can be blended out with that much room in the panel. The whole door will be cleared and the color needs to be blended out. So technically the whole door will be painted but, not completely based (only hiding repair) to keep the color match seamless. Careful and gradual stepping out of the repair should make it seamless and should keep the paint within the door panel.
good luck,

KobaltBlau · 09-04-2004, 12:37 PM

Thanks again for all the help, guys! I don't know much about body stuff, so I feel much more prepared to deal with this now. This board is great!

lateapex911 · 09-04-2004, 02:28 PM

Good advice you have gotten here.

Original shop is key...make sure they still use the same line of products.

Metallics are funny. It might look perfect in the day, but OFF at night.

Get the blend done well before the edge of the door, or be prepared to go further. A possible blend point is the upper body radius, IMHO.
Whatever you do DON'T let the repair run to the edge of the door and not blend into surrounding panels. Odds are it will show under some circumstance.

The problem with this is limiting the area, that's where skill comes in. Guys like Damon can do it in his sleep, guys like me have to be very careful and spray plenty of tests!