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North Coast Cab's Avatar
 
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Rear Camber Adjustment

I had an alignment done recently and then spent two days at the track. It seems that the rear camber moved from the settings at the shop. The drivers rear is about 0 degrees and the passengers rear is about -10 degres. I don't have time to get the shop to readjust so I want to adjust myself. I found a tech article sumarizing the rear adjustment using a framing square and ruler.
www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/home_toe_in/home_toe_in.htm
Any advice?

John
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Old 09-25-2004, 03:18 PM
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I did a pretty good job on the 914 race car. At least it drove straight. I modified a 2' level by drilling and tapping for 10/32 screws so that I could place the extende screw head against the rim bead. That way, I knew each turn on the screw was 1/32nd of an inch. Using the table, I could covert to degrees at a fairly accurate and sensative rate.

All of this on a perfectly level pad aided by 2-3 vinyl floor tiles in a stack under the tires to fine tune the surface. The pain was making the adjustment and rolling off and back a car length and moving back on again for each time I went under the car to relax the suspension.

BTW, your -10 sounds scary. And if you make big changes to your camber, your toe in will go off. So, you need to set up the strings.

It all works fine if you have the patience.
Old 09-25-2004, 04:55 PM
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Any pictures of the carpenter level device?

I finished my poly bronze installation on the rear and want to check it before I take it in for an alignment.

I thought the bushings were my problem with my undebody knock. The bushings were shot, but I still have the knocking.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but is the knock still gone with the bearing replacement?

Lee 78SC
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Old 09-25-2004, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oneblueyedog
Any pictures of the carpenter level device?

Sure, but not much to see.

Old 09-27-2004, 06:25 PM
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Are you sure it's -10 degrees? Did you leave out the decimal? It is tough to get -2 degrees in the rear on must 911's.

This HF tool attached to a straight edge will work great. Chris Streit turned me onto it, and we set up our cars with it. Works great and when compared to a computer alignment rig, the home brewed alignment was marginally off.



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34214
Old 09-27-2004, 06:48 PM
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John,

If you are speaking about your 1984 Cab, and not exaggerating about the -10 degrees, then you have something drastically wrong on that rear corner!

The accentric bolts which affect rear camber adjustment are good for about 4 degrees adjustment - from +1 to -2 degrees. IF you have discovered a way to expand that range, let us all know!

Souk: ". . . the home brewed alignment was marginally off." I disagree! It was probably the "computer alignment rig" which was off!! Remember, even the most sophisticated shops use elevated ramps, which are seldom perfectly level, and use water bubble levels to "align" the alignment pods on each corner. Unless they are a "race shop" which is anal about accuracy and repeatability, I would go with the "home brew" every single time!

Ed LoPresti
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Old 09-27-2004, 07:43 PM
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Ed, I take it we've been doing good all along

Back in college we used all the home brewed methods we read about, because we couldn't afford anything more high tech. Plus an SAE Formula car doesn't really fit on the standard rig... We were pretty confident our methods were good.

Toe, thrust and camber are easy...it's the corner weight that I wish I could home brew. Give me some time
Old 09-27-2004, 08:14 PM
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I guess I exaggerated a little about the -10 degrees. The drivers was about 0 and the passengers was about -3. I used the framing square method and was able to get things to about -1.5 on the drivers and -2 on the passengers. I'm sure I could get closer but I was running out of patience. I had a 12mm socket that wouldn't fit and a 12mm allen which would fit. There was still very little room down there and it was very tough to rotate that bolt. Someone must have a trick.

This winter I'm going to attempt the full string alignemnt and set-up in the garage. I think if you take your time you can get very accurate results.

John
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:47 AM
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John, if you loosen all the bolts that hold the rear setting together (3 total if I recall correctly), the eccentric bolt should move freely. Try punching an indicator mark on the outside surface of the eccentric bolt to give yourself a reference of where the peak of the cam lobe is. It helps when you see the peak moving.

Also, if your work surface is not level, add or substract accordingly.
Old 09-28-2004, 09:41 AM
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Has anyone rigged anything to keep the steering wheel straight. If there is something out there to buy, it would save me the hassle of constructing.
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:50 AM
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Use a bungie cord of you have to, but making equal adjustments on the toe (left and right) should keep the wheel straight.
Old 09-28-2004, 09:58 AM
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I was actually looking for something like this:

But wanted some more to choose from.
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by North Coast Cab
There was still very little room down there and it was very tough to rotate that bolt. Someone must have a trick.



John
Sounds like you had the vehicle weight on the suspension. You need to get the weight off to easily turn the eccentrics. You'll find you have much greater range of adjustment this way.
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:29 AM
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Where did you get the 12mm allen. I had a heck of a time finding one. finally ended up grinding another tool I had to work - mediocre results and skinned knuckels. If you search for "ray scruggs" some one scanned in the method for adjusting the rear where you dont have to set the car back down each time. Cant imagine what PITA it would be to do that.

FWIW I home brewed mine just to get it close. Took it to an alignment shop and they would not touch it. Said it was as close as they could get it.
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Old 09-28-2004, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elombard
If you search for "ray scruggs"
Toe Adjust Techniquest
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:33 PM
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I bought a couple 12mm allens on eBay - one a wrench and the other a 1/2" socket.

John - I also have one of the tools Souk mentioned if you want to borrow?
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Souk
Toe, thrust and camber are easy...it's the corner weight that I wish I could home brew. Give me some time
See, now I can corner balance, but not align!'

I know someone who has scales for sale...
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:21 PM
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I got an 12mm allen key from Sears. I wanted a socket but couldn't find one at 8pm the night I had time to work on it.

Milt,

The photo was all I needed. I was overthinking it. Thanks. With that tool and the chamberchart.xls I'm going for it.

I even have the angle tool since I set my spring plates with it.

I'm convinced I have the wheel bearing knock. I thought it might have been the shocks but I removed the bottom bolts and it still made the knock when I pressed on the bumper up and down.

After lowering my car. It is much,much more pleasing to drive.

Thanks,
Lee 78sc
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Old 09-28-2004, 05:30 PM
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Zeke:

Your post scares me !!!... I have the exact same home brew camber device....even the same carpenter's level with the *yellow* bubble gauges...

Here's an excerpt from my Rennlist article on this point:

- Camber gauge. This can be plain-and-simple, for one rim size ( the example I cite is for a 16" wheel)...but a friend saw my device and went further to make an adjustable unit for various rim diameters. Your call. Anyway, I started out by selecting a 24" long carpenters water level made out of aluminum, like an "I" beam. Mine had three levels. Held vertically, you would see a "top" level, a "bottom" level, and one in the middle at 90 degrees from these two. Somwhere near the bottom ( held vertically), drill the aluminum frame of this level, to mount a threaded rod ( 6-32 works well)that projects about 3-4 inches from the "I" beam flange of the main frame. To better understand orientation, this rod projects out "to the right" ( say), as you view the water levels. Fasten it by lock nuts so it can't move . About 17" ( actually 425 mm) above this point ( for a 16" wheel) , drill another hole in the "I" beam frame of the unit, but tap the hole with a 6-32 thread tap. Fasten a set of lock nuts to "zero" the same projection as the bottom rod, but do not to allow it to project out less than this amount. However, *do* allow it to thread "out". With this, you can place the vertical water level against the rim ( touching the rim with both the upper and lower rods...necessary for body clearance), and with equal rod projections top and bottom, you would have both the top and bottom levels centered. ( Check this against a known plumb surface). If you have negative camber, you would need to thread "out" a certain number of turns of the upper rod... to re-establish a plumb condition. The neat thing is that you know the distance between the rods, and you know that with a 6-32 rod, there are 32 rotations to each inch of travel. Using "inverse tangent" trigonometry, you can easily measure camber to within 0.1 degree accuracy. I made a chart that easily converts "number of turns" of the upper rod, to equivalant degrees ( assuming the 425 mm distance between the rods for a 16" wheel stays the same). I checked this against the $200 electronic devices and found equivalent accuracy. Caveat: search out a good water level, and use one where the water miniscus ( bubble) doesn't quite touch both lines when centered. This helps view the plumb condition with better viewing accuracy.
Hope this makes sense,,....and hope it can help someone. -
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:47 AM
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I made the 12mm tool by taking the allen key, cutting it off right at the "L" and then welding the long part into a 12mm socket. The local ACE hardware has the 12mm allen keys for ~$2
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:36 AM
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