Fresh/Current thoughts on Clay/Paint...

[mmm]

First of all, yes, I searched the archives. Most who use clay bars on their paint seem to swear by it. And yet some contend that it actually removes a little bit of paint each time. Over time, the implication is that the cummulative effects of using clay on your paint could be bad if it does in fact actually remove a little bit of paint each time.

Here is an article from Car Care Online (Car Care Specialties), basically, they contend that it DOES remove paint and warn against overuse.

The problem is that there is a LOT of conflicting info on this, others claim that there are no ill effects to one's paint in using clay. Who to believe? Has anyone had any luck deciphering the truth of the matter.

The paint on a car is only so thick, and often in multiple thin layers (primer coat, base coat(s), clearcoat(s)). How much of a concern is using clay to clean one's paint?

[JonT]

I recently did the clay bar and the amount of paint it takes off is miniscule. You really only need to clay bar once per year and would take you 50 years to wear down to primer. Not a concern in my opinion but he results are fantastic if done properly. I'll do it every spring from now on with annual spring cleanup and wax job.

[CarreraS2]

Washing your car removes some paint, too. So does any kind of polish or wax, no matter how mild. It's just a matter of "how much."

I've tried clay - it does work well, and I think the amount of paint removed is the same, or less, than a very mild cleaner wax.

[mmm]

Originally posted by JonT
...the amount of paint it takes off is miniscule. ...would take you 50 years to wear down to primer.

Thanks for the reply, but this is exactly what I'm getting at. What, exactly, is the basis for statements like these. Where is the proof? What is the truth?

How much paint is "miniscule"? Also note that wearing through a base coat and into to the primer isn't necessarily as much the issue, as wearing through a clearcoat and into a basecoat....

Not trying to be a PITA, but I'm hoping (perhaps in vain) for some "real" answers here, or somewhere.

[mmm]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Washing your car removes some paint, too. So does any kind of polish or wax, no matter how mild. It's just a matter of "how much."

I've tried clay - it does work well, and I think the amount of paint removed is the same, or less, than a very mild cleaner wax.

Sure, certain products and approaches will remove paint to varying degrees. Some "polishes"/"glazes" are "abrasive" and some are not, or rather, some are intentionally a lot more abrasive than others by design.

But specifically with regard to clay, what's the truth of the matter? The problem is that if it is doing real damage to one's paint, one may not realize this until the day one goes to use it that one last time and finds out that it's "too late" and the damage is done.

[CarreraS2]

If you have older, non-clearcoated cars like mine, you can see how much paint is being removed by how much the removing agent (i.e. the wax and towel, or the clay) changes colors.

[RickM]

I'd go by what Larry Renolds from Car Care Online says.

I can't see how washing or waxing (pure)car removes paint. A wax with a polish, wether abrasive or with certain chemical cleaners, is another story. Clay appears to work the same as rubbing compound/polish....and that removes paint.

[scottb]

The trick with clay is to keep it well-lubricated. If you do, the chances of harming/removing your paint are extremely remote.

[CarreraS2]

Clay is very much like an abrasive cleaner. It does remove some paint - like ALL cleaners or polishes do.

But I found it isn't like rubbing compound or anything - I found it to have an effect more like a mild cleaner or polish. I did keep it very well lubricated. So much so, it probably didn't do as much as it is intended to do.

That being said, I tried it out once, and probably won't use it again. Not because I think I would damage the paint with it, but more because I'm old fashioned and like the standard waxing, with the very occasional (once every year oe two on the daily drivers - every 7-8 years on the 911) cleaning with mild polishes and my Porter Cable.

[mmm]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
If you have older, non-clearcoated cars like mine, you can see how much paint is being removed by how much the removing agent (i.e. the wax and towel, or the clay) changes colors.

True, those using Clay on paint that isn't clear coated should be able to "see" how much paint the clay takes off. So how "much" is it? Of course, much of that is probably paint that has already oxidized and thus been "lost" to the elements already.

How much paint does clay take off from clean nonoxidized paint surfaces?

[jbrinkley]

here is a non clear coat 1985 honda prelude that had been sitting next unifab for six months. It's my work car now. Hey it was free. I used the blue clay and yes it slowly turned red but it took a long time to turn color, and only if I used the same piece of clay too long. It took a serious rubdown to get it to look the way it does now. I mean like two or three days.
clay removes paint if you want it to, and it doesn't if you don't.
It depends on how you use it. that's my .02

[scottb]

mmm: Please take this in the spirit intended. It sounds like you're spending WAY too much time worrying about this. Clay's been around for years. You're not going to use it every time you wash/wax the car. It's probably a once-a-year project, at best. So, relax and drive the hell out of the car.

[KobaltBlau]

And no one is going to be able to tell you how many grams of clearcoat a clay bar job takes off of the total number of grams of paint on the car. Take it from the guys with single stage paint, it doesn't take much off.

[mmm]

Originally posted by scottb
mmm: Please take this in the spirit intended. It sounds like you're spending WAY too much time worrying about this. Clay's been around for years. You're not going to use it every time you wash/wax the car. It's probably a once-a-year project, at best. So, relax and drive the hell out of the car.

Heh. No prob. I've got a thick skin, and of course I mean no offense to anyone with anything I say as well, I'm just a stickler for the details, and an all around PITA.

[mmm]

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
And no one is going to be able to tell you how many grams of clearcoat a clay bar job takes off of the total number of grams of paint on the car. Take it from the guys with single stage paint, it doesn't take much off.

I'm just trying to get at how much of an issue it may be. Part of my concern is not for my own use, but the car I'm buying was used in concours competitions for a number of years, so while it looks great, I want to be sure that repeated claybar use hasn't done too much of a number on the paint. Hopefully it's no big deal, but I hate to think about the possibility of the clear coat being almost gone.

Probably pretty unlikely though.

[911pcars]

For a definitive answer as to how much paint is removed by claying, washing, waxing, rubbing, polishing, buffing, etc., you'll need a mil gauge. It's used by body and paint shops to measure paint thickness.

Anytime, you create friction on the paint surface, a little paint (or clearcoat) is removed. I wouldn't obsess over any of the above operations performed manually.

Sherwood

[scottb]

Originally posted by mmm
Part of my concern is not for my own use, but the car I'm buying was used in concours competitions for a number of years, so while it looks great, I want to be sure that repeated claybar use hasn't done too much of a number on the paint. Hopefully it's no big deal, but I hate to think about the possibility of the clear coat being almost gone.

You've already bought the car. As far as the paint is concerned...FUGGEDABOUTIT!! If you have a problem down the road, you'll deal with it then. For now, get the car up to you and drive it like you stole it!!!

[mmm]

The purchase will not be finalized until this Saturday. But like you say, it's probably OK and nothing I plan to back out over.

[RoninLB]

Clay comes in different grits.
Clay can be a pia.
Clay can cause some damage if not kept lubed and cleaned.
Personally I'd rather use 2000-5000 W&D.
If keeping the paint extra flat isn't an issue I'd use polish&machine.
Foam pads much different than Schlegel cutting pad.

[Gordo2]

I bought into the clay craze about 2 years ago. Used it on my 911 and found it didn't change color at all (i.e. don't think it removed paint). I kept it very wet with the associated cleaning spray (Mother's kit).

Could be that I didn't use it correctly but I'm not an advocate. It cleans well but I also noticed it has a lot of potential to have some negatives. Any grit stuck in the bar = scuffing of the paint or clear coat.

I'll stick with the basics.

Gordo