Rear three point seatbelt retro fit possible in 78-83 SC?
 

In my search, I found that the rear seats on the 911's from 84 and on have the upper bolt to convert the lap belt to a shoulder three point seatbelt. However I didn't see anything (unless I just missed seeing it) in reference to the SC's. I have an 83 and was wondering if it can be converted. On the PEParts web site they did have a three point seatbelt for the 80's and on. I'll give them a call, but wanted to see if anyone had other info.

Thanks!!
Quincy

Quincy--
I've spoken to the guys at PEP and yes I'm pretty sure that pre-84s can be retrofitted for 3-point rear belts. I believe that you drill through the rear deck and firewall to secure the reels.

Not exactly sure where the PEP reel mounts - on top top of the rear deck or below it (like the 84+ cars.) On my '85, I cut away some of the sound padding of the rear deck and mounted the reel to the firewall (the top bolt receptacle was already there as you know from your research).

I had holes cut in the rear deck for the belts and also installed the 'hoods' to finish the installation.

Hope this helps - I posted a bunch of pictures of the completed installation.

be careful on the rear deck install: the oem deck on the later cars had specific reinforced mounts for the assemblies. You may want to think about reinforcing the deck on your car to emulate what the factory did. They reinforcements were welded in at time of manufacture

Thanks Steve,

I read some of your past posts, thanks for educating me! Looks like I'll have to do some drilling for that upper bolt if I want to do this.

Has anyone else done this? If yes, what was your experience?

Thank you!! I will look into reinforcing these mounts. Do you happen to know if the deck itself was reinforced to accomodate any stresses from the shoulder belt?

hi quincy
from what it appears (we never cut up a deck to see exactly) the factory welded on receptables that were made from heavy guage metal with threaded inserts for the mounting bolts. I am fairly certain the rear decks on 77 and newer cars were the same ( Coupe for coupe, cab and targa for same; with exception of turbo cars that had a bump for air filter clearance)

Left a message with Trampas at PEParts and he was nice enough to e-mail me a note and a few pictures. For the SC's it seems a 7/16" hole must be drilled into the package tray (I guess that's the rear deck) he says.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1097218371.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1097218435.jpg

Anyone who has done this?

Thanks!!

Quincy

I would like to know about this, too. I sent an email to PEP, but never heard back.

Anyone else have photos??

How about a telephone number for PEP??

Their site is down now.


Thank you,

Quincy-
I've got an '84 with 3 point belts added in the rear. If you want to take a look at it and check placement for the holes, you're welcome. Just let me know. I can't imagine it would be a big deal to reinforce behind the holes as long as the position of the holes is correct.

Wow, what timing. I get back from Aase Motors this evening with this being one of the things done and see that this thread has been looked at.

I have been wanting to do this since the thread was started. I purchased the rear seatbelts from a fellow Pelican (I believe originally purchased from PEParts). I was planning on doing this myself this past April 2005 but never had the time (Darn thing called work and family!! Ha Ha! :D )

So I spoke to Jeff at Aase Motors in Fullerton since I had a 15k mile service I needed. Showed him the parts and what I was looking to do and gave him the pics sent to me from Trampas at PEParts. They did a great job. I'm glad Jeff or Jose didn't get stuck back there in such a small space!!:D

Also had them put in the third brake light I was also planning to do. Also did a great job!!

Here are pics of the results. Sorry as I don't have pics of the process.


[img]
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads6/DSC063041135844907.jpg[/img]
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135845035.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135845172.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135845297.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135845406.jpg

HFR_Racer,
PE Products phone number is 800-593-8787 from an ad in the Panorama.

Pat,
Do you have any pics of yours?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135846239.jpg

Here is that first picture again.

Just like yours.

My kids are 9 & 5, 9 year old sits in the front now if wife/mom is not in the car.

I thought I'd throw in a pic of my new aluminum gauge bezels.

Yours looks great, you'll like having them.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135882044.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135882165.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135882255.jpg

I have an 84 and I take a 5 and 4 year old in it, so the rear shoulder belts are priority. Does anyone know anyone else who sells these? http://www.peparts.com seems to be closed.

Thanks Pat for those pics!

What booster seat are you using? The one I have is just a tad wide. I see yours fits very well.
Would you happen to have the name and even model number if possible?

Thanks!!

That seat is a Walmart special. Graco I think.
I found one that I could cut/shape to fit the shape of the rear seat. So a solid flat bottom booster probably won't work.
Ah, the family porsche. This isn't exactly a track car thread is it?

Indigo -
I got mine from a Porcshe mechanic that also had a few P-cars for sale.
He had a pretty good inventory of surplus parts. Find someone like that & you should be set.
I had purchased a set of 993 rear belts but they didn't fit my car. Later 3.2 or I think 964 is what you need.
Good luck

HFR_Racer,

Here is a close up of the plastic trim/seat belt guide you asked about. Part number is 911-555-615-01. It is the same trim from the front seat belt. Hope this helps.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135929109.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1135929219.jpg

By the way, what type of curtains are you guys hanging in the windows? I was thinking a frilly mauve tone one with tassels would go nice with mine. :D

Yea, mauve but tassels?

And do you think that a pair of front 944 seat belts will fit in the 1984 3.2 rear seat ???

It probably will work if the reel size isn't too big, but make sure the reel will lock when in a horizontal position.

Edit: Whoops, you said 84 Targa, I think those model 84 and after had receptacles for the upper mount, would need to see if the bolt on the reel would fit that upper mounting point.

I did this upgrade and it worked great. Here is a link that describes the process:

http://www.netmotor.de/Bereiche/Zubehoer/Gurte.htm

Sorry it is in German, but the pictures and part numbers still help. I translated it to English by putting the link in Yahoo search. Try this:

http://66.218.71.231/language/translation/translatedPage.php?tt=url&text=http%3a//www.netmotor.de/Bereiche/Zubehoer/Gurte.htm&lp=de_en&.intl=us&fr=FP-tab-web-t

My 81 SC did not have the holes in the deck - so I drilled. Reinforcing the deck mentioned earlier is needed. Large washers will do.

The trickiest parts were:
aligning where to drill the holes because the reels are not separate left and right part numbers. The holes will be positioned asymetrically on the deck. When you get the reels and lay them on the deck you will see what I mean. Just make sure to place both reels on the deck and mark where to drill with a punch before drilling

aligning where to cut the panel for the belt to go through. Patience and a sharp razor knife are needed.

It is a tight fit for an SC panel to go back on with the reels in place. Carrera panels have more height, but you should be OK.

My reels came with plastic clips attached. I did not remove them because they looked like part of the reel. They were transit clips and needed to be removed for the inertia reel to work correctly. I wish I knew this originally!

It was worth it. I can now drive the kids around in safety.

Thank you very much for that link jknapp...very useful for the mod.There is another link for the mod...it is in French but the pics are very good...
http://911carrera.free.fr/article.php?id=28

jknapp,

Great pictures and thank you for the PART numbers.

I'm getting parts together for adding 3 point belts to my 86 Carrera coupe - I confirmed I have the mount points and perforated padding,
and have a place in LA that has belts from an 88 waiting for me...

-Todd:)

SC panel in a targa too tight a fit?
 

jknapp:

Re: installing a rear seat belt in the back of my 81' SC Targa rear shelf

My local mechanic said:



The retractor under the rear deck will require a different rear panel and reforming the deck panel (parcel shelf) because the late model cars that had the retractible belt had a different rear steel parcel shelf. You would have to place the retractor on the top of the shelf.

So should I try to find a top mounting reel?

The 3 point belt will be used on a kids booster seat for a few years so I wonder if a top mounted one would be better?

I bought a set of belts from PEP, but haven't yet installed. I have an 81' SC. From the pics I have seen I have the impression that all Targa's have the 'short' deck? True? The PEP kit contains large washers to go underneath the tray. I'm still not clear on where I am supposed to route the belts...I don't recall getting the hoods pictured in one of the intallations. It appears the PEP kit routes the belts through the front of the rear firewall/parcel tray cover, rather than through the top....

What is the concensus? Do I need to route through the top or front face? Notwithstanding the large washers, do I need to weld in extra support? Do we have any engineers who have calculated the force that the parcel shelf/firewall will withstand when the force of a 60lb kid is being decelerated at 60mph?

What is meant by "the retractor under the rear deck?" Does that mean in some applications the retractor belt is mounted in the engine bay? That seems counter-intuitive, since it would leave an open hole through the firewall to route the belt. Also, if I'm going to remove the rear deck cover, I was considering upgrading the rear speakers as well. Does anyone have recommendations on this?

Thanks in advance to all who respond.

DJC--
"retractor under the rear deck" means under the parcel shelf, mounted to the firewall, not through the firewall. Can only imagine the degradation to the belts by subjecting them to the engine compartment heat.

I think that whether you mount the reels through the front or top of the rear tray depends upon the vehicle. On my '85 I mounted them on top, which is where I think they would go on your '81. When doing mine, I did discover that all 84+ 911s had the mounting points already installed, so I did not need to add reinforcing. Your '81 is pre-rear shoulder belts, so some reinforcement may be necessary. Do a search -- this has been discussed at length and there is very good documentation on others' installations.

DJC911, did you ever get this done? I have a '79 SC Targa I would like to make this mod to but would like to know how it came out on the Targa.

Dave

Rear Seat Belts
 

I have not yet installed my belts...other things have gotten in the way. When I do get it done, I will try to get pics of the process and post them.

I did do a bit of preliminary investigation. I only found a couple of screws to hold in the parcel shelf, but was unable to remove the shelf. It feels like the back end is attached or held in place by the rear window. If I have to take that window out to do the job, I will have to go to a specialist. The rear window is VERY complex and expensive and I don't want to break it or have it not re-seated properly. I have read some of the horror stories about its removal and re-installation in this forum...unfortunately, it will eventually have to come out to (a) replace seals and (b) repaint the car.

Speaking of which, I know this is off-topic, but do any of you live in the Phoenix Metropolitan area and have recommendations for someone who can safely remove and reinstall the rear window? What about painters? Interior installers?

Thanks.

DJC911--
You do NOT (thankfully!) need to remove the rear window to remove the parcel shelf.
There are (were) 4 sheet metal screws that hold the parcel shelf to the VERTICAL portion of the firewall (where the seat backs are) - two high and two low on each side.

In addition, there is a metal 'tongue' on the back of the parcel shelf that helps hold it in position. Once you've removed the four screws, you'll need to push the parcel shelf up then pull it foward. You only need to raise it about an inch or so for the tongue to clear its holder in the firewall.

Disconnect the speaker wires from the speakers and you can then remove the entire shelf to get at the firewall.

I am getting my 82 cab conversion this week... ome task will be to add 3 point rear belts. I can see you guys are getting your belts from PEP and using a few big flat washers and I guess thats fine best I can tell?? Any one have part numbers? Also is there a better combo to use? Will PEP sell the kit including the trim to clean it up after install? Any thoughts are welcome... I remember a long time ago there was a tool that would allow you to drill a hole in steel and upi could insert a threadded plud and pop it in there close to the same way you could put in a pop rivit.... I am looking for it now?? I think it was a snapon tool???

thanks guys

Any ideas for a near factory look would be great, and if you guys have a kit ready to go or parts please PM me.

:)

I ended up using Don Jackson Enterprises to do the install. As far as I know, they simply drilled a hole in the metal and ran the bolt through with a large washer and nut on the engine-side of the firewall/parcel shelf.

If you have a cab, the process may be very different.

I will tell you that if you have a "short" deck (I think this applies to later cars and to targas) you may find that the parcel shelf does not sit high enough above the firewall to allow the seatbelt mechanism to sit beneath it cleanly. Mine looks pretty good, but the rear of the shelf sits higher now (probably less than 1"), so it isn't a perfect "factory" installation. But, particularly in my case, because the rear window is tinted dark and the interior is black, you really cannot tell. It looks good and more importantly, it gives my kids added safety when they ride back there.

Did you by any chance have a few pics?would like to see the install both inside and out (underneath)...

:)