Then can we call you Uncle?

If you have a driveway leading from the street to the shop, check to see if a bus will be blocking the driveway when it is at the proposed bus stop. There may be a city ordinance as to the minimum distance a bus stop can be to a driveway.

In the city of the ever faithful cub fan, a broken bus is normally left at a bus stop until a tow truck is sent to retrieve it. Having a broken bus in front of your business will impact the way you do business if the bus stop block access to your shop.

yes, the shop is right on the sidewalk. i'll be blocked every 15 minutes, let alone extra wait time, while they hang there to get back on schedule. busses don't always just stop and immediately go. let me add that the reason for this change, is to make it more convenient for riders, by lengthening the distance between stops, so the busses don't have to pull in and stop every block or two. they are proposing as much as five blocks between stops, to streamline the route. you would think that lots of people would be inconvenienced by the extra walking distance.

John,

I worked for a City for years. Remember the squeaky wheel? Well it works. There are a couple of things you may want to look at. I would certainly get an attorney!!! I would also contact both the County Supervisors, as well as your City reps. Forget the Public Works Director, they are usually spineless and City Managers/County Administrators will only do what the council or board wants. So don't waste your time with staff, they may totally agree with you but they are so far down the decision making food chain that they are helpless.

One strategy would be to see the environmental documents. I know that here in California there are prescribed methods that must be followed prior to doing anything when it comes to the impacts of certain changes in how an agency runs itself. The impact on local businesses must be taken into account, I am not sure if it is that way in your neck of the woods, but it is something that can embarrass the heck out of a bureaucratic planning director or public works director. If there are other business owners in the area, you may want to solicit their support. The boards/councils do listen and will take to task a planner or whoever made the decision to put the silly stop in front of your shop given the conditions you describe.

And remember, as a business owner in good standing, you pay the taxes and generate the jobs and revenues that are important to the fiscal well being of the area and assure the reelection of the councilman or county supervisor.

Good luck,
Dan

Give 'em a taste of their own medicine.

Demand an environmental impact statement. There could be a rare microorganism living in front of your shop that requires a steady dose of Swepco to survive.

John:

My ex works in politics. She's worked on the local and state levels here in California. There's an acronym: NIMBY. It stands for Not In My Back Yard. What this means is that you and neighboring businesses should become NIMBYs, and let your local city councilman or county supervisor (or equivalent) know that you're VERY unhappy and that you intend to let others know how unhappy you are. Politicians and their aides take this sort of pressure very seriously, as once they're elected the thing they want most is another term (and another, and another, etc.), and unhappy constituents are the last thing they want. Enlist their assistance, as they are in business to keep their constituents happy.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

John.....paint your VeeDub Mirco Bus to look like Metro and start picking people up at the stop up the street. Take them for a wild @ss ride.
Tell em it's new shuttle and how the rides free due to
city cut backs. Take back seats out so they have to kneel as they attempt to hold on. Post Pictures of there faces as your cornering
about Forty-Five MPH.
Riders will go away and no need for any bus stops.

K.T. 1973 911 E 2.4 MFI
1965 Devin "D" - 1967 912 Power Plant

Done

Good luck

Super: I'm not sure your reaction might include feelings resulting from my statements above, but surely I don't believe public agencies are stupid..not all of them, and not all that work for them. But! From what I know of this case, and some other cases, public agencies don't always make the best decision.

John's situ might have more details that would shed more light on it, but the fact that the transit authority would raze two existing bus stops to build a new one doesn't make sense. Construction cost money. Unless there is a change in traffic (vehicular and pedestrian) that seriously impacts the existing arrangements why would an agency want to spend money?

Agencies , private or public, often need to spend their budget or risk a reduced budget next year. That's when rediculous decisons are made. I've seen it personally.

As far as other public decisons that have aided me in my opinion of some public agencies..here is a funny one. I had a town put a hold to construction and call a town meeting to discuss: color of the fake brick siding on a steel building within a fenced area of which the fence line will be lined with tall pines that are meant to make the site less visible, whether a piece of equipment to be installed on that site will distrupt the lives of canine in the area. That's just a couple amongst the numerous hassles I have had to deal with when working with public agencies.

Anyhow..it's Friday and I have to go wash the 911....doh! It's raining!

Re: the city wants to put a bus stop in front of my shop! help!
 

This sucks, but I wonder about the negatives that you stated regarding restrooms, bus change, fumes, etc. These things don't affect the diner?

The NIMBY thing thing works both ways. Make sure you take that into account when you go to state your case. Nothing will kill an appeal as fast as selfish reasoning.

Again, not against you, JW, just looking at both sides of the issue. I live under an airport flight path that is ever expanding in terms of numbers of flights. I know what it's like.

I hope you don't have alley access, 'cause if you do, you have another issue that bodes well to the bus company's position.

They are going to play the card that less stops mean less fuel used. That's a tough one to suppress these days Be prepared and best of luck to you.

(Maybe you ought to check into teaching diesel mechanics at the local trade school one evening a week if it can be determined that the bus company recruits mechanics or sends apprentices there. After all, what's the difference btween an MFI pump and a diesel pump except a little pressure? ;) )

Put this $29 piece of history in front of your shop. The surveyors will throw their hands in the air, in defeat and initiate plan B....New location. ;) PS: The urination problem will get worse though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=396&item=393416937 4&rd=1

http://i12.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/95/9d/39_3.JPG

Hopefully a bit of humor will make you feel better....

re the comments on env. impact stmts, procedures, etc. Claif. has a mini-NEPA (SEPA?) modelled on the federal law. I don't know if Wash. does or not. As I recall, they do. Understand that this just requires an agency to discuss env'l impacts (usually not economic ones) and does NOT require a substantive outcome. Practically, it might stop the change but not legally. Attorneys are not cheap and a specialist in env'l laws are expensive period (I know cuz I are one). The ones who do public interest law barely support themselves, but won't take your case. The ones that work for the mining and oil co.s would probably charge about $300/hr. in Seattle. I suggest you work on getting the neighbors to complain to the city. Water flows downhil (towards money) and bureaucrocies flow away from trouble. If you make more trouble than whatever the adv. is to them, they will change it or at least delay it - maybe for years.

Tow items - I was surpised to see where your shop was - seemed like it was a pretty heavily built up area with spendy rents. I thought you owned the proerty and had bought it years ago ('70s) when it was cheap and C-Addle was good place to live (before it was discovered). I was planning on dropping in for a visit when I was up there since you were so close in. What I'm getting to is that you are not in the best area for car served facilities. It's dense and surrounded by lots more city, so transit makes sense, as does walking, and biking. This makes it a kind of uphill battle.

I suggest that people who write letters be Seattle residents or workers if they live in the burbs. I don't think a flood of letters from outside the area will help. They should all mention that they support transit, and if they do ride transit - say that (we all support transit, right? even if only for someone else). If they ride a lot, say that. Then after establishing the general warm feeling you have for transit, explain how this specific change is not good for transit riders, and the business. Maybe you think of a reason why having the business there cuts pollution or something.

Anyway, good luck John.

Here's another thing to think about. Should you go forward, be prepared for the property you lease to be examined under the current zoning laws. Sometimes, if the laws have been amended and your property is grandfathered, they (the zoning committee) may decide that that property is better served with a big "R" placed in front of its descriptor. That would affect the owner of the property mre than you as the owner would now be involved in defending the propertys use. Just be aware that should you anger county government too much, the situation could become untenable. Oh, the fire hydrant thing: Yep, the surveyors NEVER, EVER use drawings when they check for accurate placement of public utilities, so you should be cool there.

Gang, you may not understand the situation here.

John's shop is in a mixed use neighborhood with retail/resturaunt/light industry/resedential. We're not talking about a major transit facility, just a bus stop sign, some yellow and red paint on the curb, and maybe a bench. There will be a big impact on John's environment, but no one is going to file an EUS over it. This isn't the city, it's a multi-county transit authority.

I saw the pics of your shop.

Being a muni employee during my day job lends sympathy to you.

The traffic engineers are always talking about sight angles. These are the angles at the corners of intersections that allow a driver to see oncoming traffic at angles to him.

If they drop a bus stop shelter within these angles, and your driveway to your shop constitutes an intersection, it will have to be removed for safety.

Well at least its a cheap thought.

I'll try to think of some others.

Good luck,
David Duffield

get a lawyer who's hooked up with city hall Before this thing gains momentum.

fwiw there is a "bus" safety issue related to corner bus stops. A mid block allows better driver observation of traffic and riders. Riders have more control of their traffic safety. The issue is pronounced with school buses. I figure if it's an issue in NY it's an issue out there. Your school district should have a flyer on bus safety which relates to what I just wrote.. get one to see what part of this game may be.

Unless your politically endowed your screwed.

John, relative to the recommendation to get an attorney involved, I would highly recommend that you get an atty. who specializes in zoning and like matters! If all else fails. go buy the ugliest vehicles you can find, place registration and insurance on them, and park one in front of each of the city council member's homes, making sure to rotate them so they can't be towed. Repeat this until that bus stop magically disappears. I know it sounds crazy, but my dad threatened an overzealous city inspector with just such a thing and he backed waaaaay off. Good luck John!!

I know the neighborhood. The fact that it is multi-county makes a state EUS/EIS more likely than if it was the city or 1 county. It actualy may not be just a single sign/stop -- there will be a plan somewhere about how they assign or move stops. That over-arching plan is what an attorney will focus on. It may or may not require or have had an EUS/EIS. I don't know state law except by analogy to NEPA. But I used to do the federal NEPA stuff until I decide to focus all energy on endangered species, and that is the first thing I'd look at. Anyway you need a state mini-NEPA expert attorney.

John:

I do not live in your immediate area, but would be happy to write a letter if you still think it would help.

I wish you the best and will be watching this closely.

Bus stop...
 

Bus stop?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1097316099.jpg

Hi John,

Wish you all the best

Kees (The Netherlands).