Another insurance question...on my 993 wreck.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I know insur. coverage of a DE wreck has been covered here a lot. But now I'm wondering about using my street collision policy as supplemental to my track insurance.

Initial est. of my crash at the last DE is $22k and they haven't even looked at the cause of the puddle that has developed under the car. Track insur. is gonna cover this, but my deductible is $6750 - ouch! My deductible with my street insur. (USAA) is $1000 - liveable. I've been with them for 15 yrs., have two cars and two houses on the policy, two minor (under $1000) car claims years ago.

I just tried calling in an anonymous inquiry about filing a claim with them to cover my track deductible. They sounded like it was very possible, but could not tell me how much it would make my rates increase by. I expect and can handle a slight increase over the next few years. But my real worry is that they tell me to get lost and then still put me on double-secret probation for even trying to file a track claim. I told this to the lady and she did not disagree with me. Has anyone here tried this before and if so, what were the results? Thanks.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

80 hits and no replies? Bumpe.

Buehler? Anyone? Orange whip?

jpnovak · 10-12-2004, 01:47 PM

YOu must have done a good job to get that much damage. Did they decide to fix or total the car. I guess you need to ask yourself if the difference in deductable, or how much claim you file with the primary ins. co. is worth the hassle of several years of potential premium increases and potential black ball from getting insurance. I don't know what other ins. cos will do if they see you filed a claim for a track loss.

VincentVega · 10-12-2004, 01:57 PM

I've thought about this a lot, especially as you, RL, almost had me looking at 993's

I have no first hand experience with this, so all I can offer is speculation really. I've read stories of ins. companies covering an on track incident only to drop the party involved. I've also read stories of premiums going up ~25%. Have you gotten another estimate? I know euro-pro's are the best, but 22k just sounds crazy to me. For another ~10k you can buy another car.

chuckw951 · 10-12-2004, 04:13 PM

Insurance companies are always looking for a reason NOT to pay a claim...seems like running the car at the track would be a legally defensible reason for them not to pay the claim/deductable.

Insurance companies are famous for cancelling drivers with minor claims...

First place to start is to read the fine print in your policy

Steeve · 10-12-2004, 04:55 PM

I can't respond to the track claims, but I have also been with USAA for years. Durig my college years, I was what you would call a not-so-careful driver. Despite the claims, I was never dropped by USAA, and even though I had premium increases, they were not what I would classify as over-the-top.

My experience has shown USAA to be a reputable company to do business with. If you haven't already, give them the situation (anonymously if you prefer) and ask them straight up if you run the risk of being cancelled. My bet is that it won't be a worry. They tend to bend over backwards to take care of their policyholders.

FWIW

Mookster · Mookster's Garage

Read your policies carefully!

My suggestion is to check the exclusions under the collision portion of the policy. Most policies exclude track events, organized racing...

Also refer to your policies for additional insurance clauses. It is very possible you will create a giant cluster between the 2 companies. Most policies, if dual insured, will only pay a prorata amount. Both companies will than look to the other for possible subrogation.

My suggestion is to eat your deductible and keep USAA out of the loop.

Noel · 10-13-2004, 08:17 AM

I would attempt to file the claim with the street policy first since the deductible is lower and then if they reject it due to an exclusion in the policy, file the claim with your track coverage policy. Just curious why you purchased track coverage in the first place if you were not sure if your street policy covers.
I purchased a DE policy because my street policy specifically excludes track driving of any kind.

Good luck

Bailey · Bailey's Garage

In MA the insurance policies are written now to exclude track events. This wasn't the case years ago. For this reason I took out track insurance with LaurelDE. Hope I never have to use it as my deductible is $8,250. $22k doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a decent hit given what I've seen and heard.

Schrup · Schrup's Garage

I also use USAA for all my cars & home. If I ball up my car on the track, I won't try to file a claim with them because I don't want to jeopardize my standing with them. I used Allstate for years before I got married & was surprised at how much cheaper USAA was. Of course my car is worth only half of what yours is, but I like having cheap insurance & plan to keep it even if I have to eat 6k or $8k to repair the car myself. Plus if you file a claim, it will reduce the dividend check I get,

Actually I think the hurricanes have wiped those out for the year.

nikita76 · 10-13-2004, 09:42 AM

Rick, Sorry to hear about your car! I would check with your state insurance board, or with your ins.agent.(without giving to much info).In New York both claims and inquiries, flag your policy and will compile a "clue report". So any time you go for insurance everything will come up. If you have to many claims and your house is attached to the policy it could make it difficult to obtain insurance or worse turn the house over to a buyer that is having problems obtaining insurance because of claims attached to the property/policy. Just a thought from up north.

Good Luck,
Nikita

JackT · 10-13-2004, 10:50 AM

Rick, it all depends on your state insurance laws. In S.C. the auto policy would cover the car in a drivers education event but not if there is any racing involved. In S.C., if they pay the claim they can increase the premium or non renew the policy. They would probably non renew the policy knowing it may participate in another drivers ed.
If I were you I would contact an Independant Agent in Va. They usually are more aware of the laws in the state they practice in.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

my gut feeling is to eat the track deductible. If you go with your "real" carrier, I suspect that things will get ugly.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Thanks guys. I'm still torn. I've had the same experience as Steeve with USAA. They are a different type of insur. company and really do try to help out. Even if they raised my rates by 25%, it would still take 10 yrs. of paying the higher rates before it cost me more than paying this phat track deductible. I can handle the rate increase a lot more easily than a lump sum payout of $6750. I really think they'll cover me here. I'm just not so sure about getting dropped later. My folks had a $10k homeowner's claim with them on their beach house less than a month after closing on it. They paid happily and didn't do anything to them afterwards. They also did not raise my rates after I had a $6k homeowner's claim due to a burst pipe.

Crachian · 10-13-2004, 12:53 PM

I think Nikita has a great point. Whether you make a claim against your USAA policy or not probably won't matter in the long run because the claim that you do make will show up in the database (the CLUE report) used by the insurers for underwriting.
So your premiums may go up regardless. I'd make the claim. That's why you buy insurance. If they cancel you, go somewhere else. My personal experience has been that USAA won't cancel you, but they will jack up your rates substantially. We left USAA and saved 50%(!) I appreciated USAA's service, but at what cost? If I have a claim, I don't want to worry about making it. In the unfortunate situation of a covered loss, chances are pretty good that I would end up adverse to the insurance company and any goodwill will be wasted as we dicker about the value of the car, repairs, etc. It's all about the benjamins for them, and sadly should be for you too. There just isn't any place for personal relationships and mutual respect in the property insurance business.

The truth is that you crashed, it was on a track, and it was your fault presumable. Tell them the facts. They'll either acknowledge or deny coverage, and then it's your move. There's no point in trying to hide the facts hoping nobody will notice.

Good luck. I'm very sorry to hear about and see the damage to your car.

Rufblackbird · 10-13-2004, 01:30 PM

USAA has never asked this before, but when I recently got insurance for my other car (the GTi) they asked if I was going to use it for racing. I said no...then asked what if I did. They said they will not cover the car if it's used for racing. I've only been with them for a couple of years, so I can't say for sure what they'll tell you. Good luck Rick!

Jgordon · 10-13-2004, 02:09 PM

There seems to be a fuzzy yet present distinction between "racing" (ie. timed events or your competing against other drivers) and "drivers' education" or "defensive driving" courses (instructor, no timing). If you're willing to have a long, awkward conversation with your insurance carrier, you might bring up these differences. Probably worth $5500 to have the conversation.

Good luck.

Plavan · Plavan's Garage

OT kinda-
USAA has great insurance for cars. I would however check what you guys are paying for your home insurance with USAA. I just checked with another reputable company (Merit) about homeowners and they were half as much as I was paying with USAA!!! That was with a little more coverage than USAA! Overall USAA is a great company, but with anything, you need to check them every once in awhile. I have never had a claim with USAA (knock on wood)

audi2.7t · 10-13-2004, 04:48 PM

First ,why would you accept a $6k + deductable if you don't have that much to burn ? ,I should imagine the chances of substantial damage in a D.E. mishap are very high.....this is why I don't understand people who use their street cars for D.E. or auto X .

second ,your policy will be quite clear on weither it covers D.E. or not HOWEVER ,they will not be liable because you have another policy underwriting this exact activity making it the primary insurance carrier....so ,even if you claim from them you will be commiting fraud.

third ,you can easily work that deductable down to say $2k if you do some work yourself ,they don't care if the work is done or not ,they'll cut the check on the adjusters write up (but you'll be out of luck for supplemental damage if it's not done at a shop) .

good luck ,
Sam.

Crachian · 10-13-2004, 06:16 PM

Good point re: primary coverage Sam.

I differ on the right and ability to obtain supplements. When you accept the first check, you are not settling the claim. Write them a letter if you're unsure. Even if you're performing some of the repairs yourself, you have a right to demand the insurer supplement the claim for newly discovered damage. Practically speaking, it is not easy and will take time, but it is your right.

It doesn't sound like Rick is going to be doing the repairs to his car, so it's off-topic, but there are ways to deal with the adjusters and insurers, none of which are pleasant and easy. Think of it as a challenge and find out your state's statute of limitations.