Redline Oils

[OZCarrera3]

A friend of mine just had a mechanic suggest that he start using Redline gearbox oil in his SC. Just wondered if any of you guys have had any experience with the stuff. It seems pretty expensive ($AUD40 per US Quart) and I'm more than alittle dubious of these types of products (check the website http://www.redlineoil.com.au/home.asp).

We also had some guys from a company called ROIL (http://freespace.virgin.net/car.oil/cars_oil_treatments.htm) at our local P-car club meet last night espousing the virtues of their oil additive which they claim 'conditions' the metal in your engine/gearbox to reduce friction and heat (temp reductions in the range of 15 degrees C suggested). They back their claims with a study done by a local University. Still, not too keen to start adding 'unknown' substances to expensive inetrnal components.

What are you thoughts?

[Emission]

Redline is pretty popular over here with the enthusiast crowd. Too expensive for my tastes.

I use Mobil 1 synthetic in my engine, and Swepco 201 in my transmission - both excellent fluids.

[RoninLB]

I've used redline. it's about $8us.. I heard about Swepco 212 that's 75w/120, i think. I bought 3 gal for entertainment. I haven't been thru a winter with the 212 yet. That might be entertaining. so far so good.

[KobaltBlau]

If you don't start+drive the car in cold temperatures a good non-synthetic will work fine. Red Line oils are good stuff, but I personally think the biggest benefit in the gearbox at least would be low temperature performance.

Please see my relevant comments here, 901 and 915 boxes have very similar lubrication requirements:

901 Tranny gear oil

If you do use Red Line you will want to use 75w-90ns, with limited slip additive or moly if necessary (details in linked thread)

[jrhslick]

I've been using AMSOIL for about 15 years, in all of my vehicles.
In the 'P' car, the biggest thing that I've seen (here in Texas its a good thing) is a decrease in engine temp. I've run Mobile1 and Valvoline synthetic, but I like the way the AMSOIL performs better.

John in Austin
'89 Carrera
'91 535

[Glasgow 911SC]

I have redline oil in my tranny. It made a huge difference after the swap but I've never used Swepco for comparison.

[KobaltBlau]

Chris, did you use 75w-90ns (not 75w-90), and do you have a limited slip diff?

[OZCarrera3]

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yep seems overly expensive to me too.

jrhslick, I have heard good things about the Amsoil product here also and that they have testing equipment that will tell you when you need to change the oil, leading to reduced servicing costs (i.e. change your oil less often).

So you guys have never heard of the ROil treatment product?

I will be replacing my gearbox oil very soon and will probably go with the Amsoil products.

Thanks again.

[KobaltBlau]

never heard of roil.

My understanding is that Amsoil gear lubes all have some amount of limited slip additive.

Personally I would stay away from a synthetic that already has a limited slip additive in it. This type of fluid can easily be too slick for the porsche synchros to work well. Just about no other car made after 1980 has the porsche style synchros, so most gear oils are not formulated with them in mind.

Based on the average temperatures in Brisbane I wouldn't bother with a synthetic. If you can get SWEPCO, use it. I mentioned several alternatives in teh 901 thread including Mystik and Chevron Delo.

Do you have a limited slip differential?

[OZCarrera3]

Thanks Andy.

Nope, don't have a slipperyt diff.

Swepco 201 is pretty hard to come by here and is on the expensive side (at around $AUD100-120 for the amount required), although its still cheaper than the Redline stuff. Given your advice (I'm impressed by your research on Brisbane temps!) and the multitude of similar responses on this site will go with the 201 and advise my friend accordingly.

Thanks again.

[KobaltBlau]

Actually, if you don't have a limited slip differential I would go with the Chevron Texaco Delo 80w-90 GL-5. This is a very high quality non-synthetic gear oil aimed at the "diesel" community, and it does not have a limited slip additive. It should be availabe in austrailia and will cost far less than swepco. If you don't have a limited slip a lube without the additive like this one will make the synchros perform the best in a 901/915/930 box, since they have porsche synchros.

Here is the _australian_ site for this product, it has a number at the bottom so you can call caltex and ask them where to buy it:

http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oil_detail.asp?id=281

Be sure to give us the report on what he chooses to do!

[OZCarrera3]

Andy,

Just had a look at the site and noticed the following quotes:

"It also contains a limited slip additive and oxidation, corrosion, rust and foam inhibitors" and "In-service top up of limited slip differentials"

As it is a non-synthetic oil, I am assuming that the LSD aspect is not an issue?

[KobaltBlau]

Sheldon, I was a little off.

I thought that the Delo did not have any limited slip additive at all. I don't think the US website says specifically. apparently it does have some.

However, there is still an important point:

this gear lube, as you noted, is "suitable for in-service top up of limited slip differentials". Many gear lubes are also "suitable for service refill of limited slip differentials", which is something that delo does not claim. these lubes will tend to have more limited slip additive.

I believe that limited slip additive can keep 915 synchros from working as well as they could. If you don't have a multiplate clutch limited slip unit, there's no reason to have this additive. I do believe that the Delo has less limited slip additive than most.

In particular, a guy I know uses this in his ALFA street and race transmissions, which have porsche style synchros, but no limited slip differential since they are not transaxles. The cars shift beautifully. The key for our transaxles is the GL-5 rating, which this gear oil has.

and yes, as you said, I believe that the problems people have with synthetic oil are related to the combination of synthetic oil with friction modifiers (limited slip additives). Standard off-the-shelf stuff like valvoline non-synthetic is suitable for "service fill" of limited slip differentials, and so is SWEPCO.

Anyhow, if I had a transaxle without limited slip, and I was in your temperature range, I would take advantage of the synchronizer action, durability, availability, and relatively low cost of the Delo. I'd be very suprised if he was disappointed. It might work well with a limited slip unit as well, but I can't say for sure on that.

The other nice thing about the Delo is that their extreme pressure additive for GL-5 is not the usual sulphur phosphorous, so it is not corrosive to yellow metals. This isn't too big of a deal with the porsche synchronizers, which do not use yellow metals, but still a nice thing for other parts. It is also one of the few non-synthetic gear oils to meet the Mack GO-J plus spec.

If you _really_ want to read more, here is a very relevant thread on the ferrari chat site. Their older cars at least, like the transverse V8s and the Boxers, have porsche type synchros, so they have the same situation that we do (conflict between limited slip differential and porsche type synchro friction requirements, but without a limited slip you don't have this problem). So do the ZF transaxles in panteras.

[OZCarrera3]

Andy you certainly seem to know your stuff.

The Delo oil is certainly cheap, its only about $6 a litre here, versus $40 per litre for the Redline.

My mate is currently getting a price for about 10 litres of Swepco 201, which we will probably split. My initial thought is to go with the 201 seeing as so many guys on this site have had such positive feedback regarding it (its a known and proven quantity). However, that said, the Delo is substantially cheaper and I'm sure it would probably do a more than sufficient job. I guess I'll wait and see what the Swepco is worth and then make the decision.

Although it would be a good back-to-back comparo to see if we get similar results from using the two different oils.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by OZCarrera3
Andy you certainly seem to know your stuff.

Thanks Sheldon, but I've just had the opportunity to talk with a lot of smart people about these issues. Some here, but lots elsewhere.

Originally posted by OZCarrera3
The Delo oil is certainly cheap, its only about $6 a litre here, versus $40 per litre for the Redline.

Yes, but I really don't believe price is proportional to quality in this case. I really believe that Chevron Texaco is committed to the quality of the Delo product line. It's mainly used for very heavy use and extended drains in big trucks and equipment, which is exactly what SWEPCO is used for.

I think the pricing is the difference between a large volume business model and a boutique business model (SWEPCO also appears to be a boutique business model, at least in the porsche market).

Originally posted by OZCarrera3
My mate is currently getting a price for about 10 litres of Swepco 201, which we will probably split. My initial thought is to go with the 201 seeing as so many guys on this site have had such positive feedback regarding it (its a known and proven quantity). However, that said, the Delo is substantially cheaper and I'm sure it would probably do a more than sufficient job. I guess I'll wait and see what the Swepco is worth and then make the decision.

Although it would be a good back-to-back comparo to see if we get similar results from using the two different oils.

I won't deny that lots of people have had good success with SWEPCO, and it is a good quality oil. However, it's about $50US a gallon by the time you get it home even here. This was enough for me to go looking for alternatives. I don't think it's about cheaping out, if I someone could prove to me that SWEPCO was significantly better than their far cheaper competitors I would gladly buy it. SWEPCO saved 935 ring&pinions compared to standard oils over 20 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

Here's an idea: Why don't you get some Delo if it's readily available and put that in. If you don't like it, then you can go through the cost and process of ordering SWEPCO, but at least you'll know it's worth it. There really isn't any way the Delo could hurt the transmission, it meets all of the requirements that SWEPCO does and everything set forth by the factory There are some other alternatives too, like the CITGO Mystik stuff, but I have no clue if that's available there. I think the Delo is the best option.

I'd be willing to bet that you would be happy with the Delo and would never bother with the SWEPCO.

[copper]

OZCarerra

I called Swepco the other day on their toll free line and talked to a real nice lady in the lube sales dept. (no comments please)

She had no listings for Canadian distributors but offered to ship me a case of 201 for $200 US. This was a case of 6, 1 gallon containers of gear oil. Plenty for several people, or a long term supply.

I told her that I'd like to find someone who had it locally, as the shipping on 6 gallons would be an arm and a leg. She told me this was not a problem, as they wouldn't charge shipping on my first order of a case.

You might want to check and see if they'll do the same for you.

Check out their website, ( www.swepcousa.com ) and grab their toll free number and give them a call.

Jim

[Fishcop]

Sheldon, I got put on to Castrol Syntrax by Scott Poppe (VIP Petfoods Carerra Cup mechanic). Very happy with the results and only about $25 per litre.

[KobaltBlau]

Sheldon, it says right on the castrol site for syntrax 75w-90 in bold text:

not recommended for limited slip differentials

This is a good thing for your application. This means that even though syntrax is a full synthetic, it should work well with porsche synchronizers, I believe John's experience will back this up. It is also a GL-5.

This lube should function similarly to 75w-90ns Red Line, which several people have used with success in porsches and ferraris with porsche synchronzers. Mobil 1 SHC (but not regular over the counter mobil 1, at least in the US) is also comparable, with no friction modifier. I'd actually like to get my hands on some syntrax, but I don't think it's sold in the US.

[TMH]

I've used Redline products in the gearbox of several vehicles including an antique fire engine and now in my '87 track car. In both cases I have been very pleased with the difference it has made in the smoothness of shifting and in reducing gearbox noise in general.

The '87 has the G50 tranny, and was a little notchy going into 3rd. I emptied what appeared to be Swepco from the gearbox (it was dark blue in color), and replaced it with the Redline 75w-90NS. Significant improvement with absolutely zero issues going into any gear anymore.

The Redline stuff is expensive, but I believe that it is worth the price. Swepco might be more appropriate for your SC, though, and it has gotten rave reviews for 901 and 915 trannys. I had to go with the Redline since I have the G50, and from searching the archives, the Redline or Mobil synthetics are best for that transmission.

Tom

[Seahawk]

Tom,

Concur...after replacing the diff and trans fluid with the appropriate Redline product, my D90 ran and shifted remarkably better. That was nine years ago and I have kept Redline in without issue.
As stated, they aren't giving the stuff away! But it has been worth it.