CD Ignition & MSD

[copper]

On reading the install instructions for MSD ignitions, they specify that MSD units cannot be used on cars with CD ignition systems, only inductive systems. This appears in both the MSD 5 and MSD 6 instructions.

I have an MSD 5 I was going to put in my 69T. On checking my Haynes manual, it states all 911s from 69 on have CD systems. Yet, so many are using MSD units.

First, off, Haynes shows a CD unit mounted on the sidewall. It is large and has heat sink fins running vertically. I don't have this. Also, on tracing the wires from the coil, I can't see any that appear to go to a CD box. When I turn the key, I don't hear any whine... just the clicking of the fuel pump which lessens as pressure is reached.

There are three wires on the coil. Red on the 15, goes up the left side, into a rubber wire hose and around the front of the engine. The other two are both black, one goes to the points, the other runs across the top of the engine to the front of it and enters another rubber wire hose and not sure where it goes from there.

I have attached some pictures.

Questions:
1. Do I have a CD ignition? Could this have been made with an inductive ignition? (Euro car). Could the PO have removed it?
2. What is the square silver box on the sidewall, the manual does not identify it? Anything to do with the ignition? Squarish black wire harness on the bottom, but can't trace their path.
3. Will I be able to put the MSD 5 on my car? It's only 4 wires, one to points, one to ground, two to coil.

PLEASE HELP!!





Thanks a ton!!!

Jim

[Randy Webb]

gotta be a relay

[copper]

Hi Randy

I assume you mean the silver box...
If you have the Haynes manual, go to the ignition section and you will see a picture of the CD box. This small box is beside it, but not mentioned.

Is Haynes wrong in stating that all 911s 69 and up have CD ignitions?

In the tech article on installing, Mike Wadkins states his 85 didn't have a CD.

Confused.

[araine901]

I see no CD box in your car. It would be a Bosch if it was there. It would have heat sink fins. I assume someone took it out.

[copper]

That's what I thought...

Why would they take it out?

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by copper

PLEASE HELP!!

I've been told I need help also.

how about considering any ignition gizmos and ign wiring before your dizzy mystery meat.. except tach wire. Run new wiring, new coil, new/old MSD, and Magnacores. An MSD square coil on the left panel along with a longer coil to dizzy high tension lead would be real nice imo. Confirm dizzy operation.. and then, imo, you be fine.

[araine901]

The Bosch units worked well but were very expensive to replace. I have seen re-mans from 300-700 US. New ones are out of this world. My bet is someone opted out if it came with one originaly.

[copper]

Ronin, we both need help. You just confused the heck out of me.

mystery meat... hmmmm.

I put new points and condenser in the marelli.
I ordered a Blaster 2 coil and have an MSD 5.
Looked at the SS coil, but wasn't certain, so went with what I knew, just have to readjust the bracket to set it upright.

Is it your opinion that I don't have a CD box also? Is there anywhere else they would be mounted? Or does the wiring of the coil/dizzy tell the story?

MSD 5, although entry, should help with my mixture problems. I've got too much work to do on her right now to throw top dollar at everything. Piece meal... Also seems quite easy to wire.

[Randy Webb]

yup - looks like it was removed.

check on one of Loren's rebuilt Bosch boxes - se what they cost here at Pelican

MSD 5 may be your cheapest way out

[copper]

The Bosch coil posts are labelled 1 and 15. Which is pos and which is neg?

Red on 15, Black to points on 1, Black to ? on 1.

Jim

[copper]

So if it was removed, (possibly during rebuild by PO in 86) it would appear that it has been converted to standard inductive ignition right? Would explain the poor low end and constant rich mixture...

Jim

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by copper

You just confused the heck out of me.
mystery meat... hmmmm.

I put new points and condenser in the marelli.

I ordered a Blaster 2 coil and have an MSD 5.

Or does the wiring of the coil/dizzy tell the story?

MSD 5, although entry, should help with my mixture problems.

I've got too much work to do on her right now

... Also seems quite easy to wire.

mystery meat = crap

you don't need the condenser for the MSD. I guess you have the MSD directions? I don't know much about the marelli. Is it a carb dizzy? You know about points having to break-in?

The left panel is a better location for the coil imo. If you Have to mount it on the shroud, then route wires away from the spark plug wires. plug wire induction sucks imo.

the coil wiring does tell the Old story.

MSD 5 is fine imo. I love MSD. Probably due to the brutal existence I've seen red MSDs live thru in ocean racers. I run a blue color MSD.

IMO ignition is a package deal. Do it correctly and forget about it for 100,000mi. A weak link anywhere is a big pia waiting to happen.

Wiring correctly is little more than patience. My ignition is considered overkill, but it may give you some ideas to toss around. A wham bam quickie is your decision.

enjoy

[copper]

Condenser was replaced when the points were, just a short time ago. (Prior to deciding to go MSD). Points have only been in for about 200 Km. We still need to do another measure and adjust.

Bosch and Marelli both supplied Porsche from 69 to 72 I believe. A matter of whoever had dizzys in stock. More or less the same as the Bosch, but pretty much obsolete now. I was lucky to find points for it.

If I mount the coil on the left panel, the coil wire will run over the left plug wires, and to the dizzy. If I leave it on the shroud, it's away from the plug wires and just goes into the dizzy top beside it.

Got new plugs. I plan on increasing the gap to about .055 to start and seeing how that runs.

Recommendations on plug wire replacement?

Thanks for all the help
Jim

[project911]

To help clear up any confusion this is what a stock 70 911 with the cd box still in place.

The silver box on your sidewall is the voltage regulator.

Good Luck on your install.

[copper]

Thanks.

That does help clear it up.

Jim

BTW. I've ordered the Kingsborne 8mm wires with Beru connections to replace my current wires.

New points, condensor, MSD 5, Blaster 2, 8mm Coil wire, plug wires, and plugs.

Should be good to go.

Now I just gotta put the new clutch and P-plate in.

Jim

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by copper

Condenser was replaced when the points were,

I was lucky to find points for it.

If I mount the coil on the left panel, the coil wire will run over the left plug wires, and to the dizzy.

gap to about .055 to start and seeing how that runs.

Recommendations on plug wire replacement?

keep the condenser and old coil in the trunk for a back up ignition on the road.

I bought a 2.7RS dizzy new for less than $300.. call pelican whenever. It's curved real nice for carbs.

I've never had a coil wire and plug wire problem. It's usually a plug wire that cause a spark in another plug wire when they're very close together.. that's an induction problem. I run the coil high tension from the left side panel rearward, then close to the rear cross member engine mount, then to the dizzy. It's not necessary but I had the option. It's less wire floping around.

I would start at a .030 plug till your All dialed in. Running 2 heat ranges hotter for tuning only may make dialing in the carbs easier? Raising the gap in .005 increments, if it increases performance, can be done later. I'd keep it simple and basic till you have the carbs ok.

Magnacores 8.5.. the Bosch with Beru connectors is a prob waiting to happen imo. A good shopper can find a very good price. I'm not a good shopper. Then Pelican should match that price.

oh yeah.. I'm only a weekend wrench. so this is only fwiw.

[copper]

oh yeah.. I'm only a weekend wrench. so this is only fwiw.

That's okay, I'm only a last couple months wrench...

But I place a high value on an experienced owner's opinions...

Jim

[jluetjen]

IMO ignition is a package deal. Do it correctly and forget about it for 100,000mi. A weak link anywhere is a big pia waiting to happen.

Copper;
I agree with RoninLB. Since it looks like you're updating your whole ignition system the only thing that I would add is to ditch the points and replace them with an optical or inductive trigger. For example I've got a Crane optical ignition in my car. I've long since forgotten what dwell means as well as the affects of variation in the points gap on the rest of the system. With an optical system you set it once and forgetaboutit. The caps last a lot longer too. Given the price for Marelli caps and rotors, switching to an optical system will pay for itself financially in no-time.

[304065]

John, you don't happen to know the model number for the optical trigger, do you? I'm thinking about ditching my points.

[jluetjen]

John;
Crane Fireball XR700. BTW, to make it work with an MSD, you need to get the tach adaptor as well as some diodes. I've documented the wiring a few times previously. Just do a search under "MSD" and my name.