Here's where I'm at. The left bank, heat exchanger is now off.

1. Does the lower valve cover need to come off too?

2. What happens to the oil tubes at the bottom, do these automatically come out when the heads are extracted?

3. Most important, I do not understand how to disconnect (if needed??) the timing chain? Haynes seems to indicate (i.e process.. eg. "splippers, sprocket, Woodfuff key, etc.,???) Is there a necessary Porsche tool needed now for this project?. Does the timing chain need to come off?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099449654.jpg

You need, at a minimum, an exploded view of the engine parts. That and a lot of containers to organize the parts as they come off. Do you have any manuals or are you going to completely "back yard" this?

I think this site has repro pages from the repair manual.

Sherwood

1. I've got the exploded view copy from this site.

2. The Haynes manual.

3. Projects 101

4. Bruce Anderson's Performance Handbook.


I've been placing all parts and nuts/bolts in plastic contaiers so far. BUT.......I don't wnat to mess up or lose something with the timing chains.....I have a pic of my left chain earlier on this thread

Thanks

HGP:
You're pretty brave jumping into this as fast as you did. I guess you've removed 911 engines in the past.
WOW!
J.P.

Yes you must remove the timing chain before you remove the CAM. But it may be a good idea for you to be sure you know how to put it back together before you take it apart any further. Re-timing the valves is a very critical operation, if you screw it up you'll buy a new motor. I strongly recommend a good manual! Does the Haynes cover setting the valve timing?

OK, you may not actually have to "remove" the timing chain from the engine. But you do have to get it off the CAM so you can get the CAM out. I was able to slide the gear off the CAM without removing the chain from the engine, but I have a 964 motor.

I've never taken apart any engine. However, replaced clutches in this car and a replicar I had in the past though, and flywheeel in this car too. I can't really take this car 50 miles for repairs.

HGP,

Sure would be nice to know your name! Where do you live? If there was someone in the area who had done this before it would help a lot, as this is not black magic but its a somewhat complicated engine.

As Jeff above said, taking it apart is not the important part, but the timing of the cams and such during re-assembly are critical and not for the faint hearted. If there were someone in the area who has done that it would make a lot of difference. There are Pelican's around the country (assume you are in America but with no location specified we do not know) who would come over and lend a hand.

Zip lock bags are fine and a good cheap way to keep things together. The oil tubes do fall free when the one side is removed. Yes, you do need to remove the bottom valve cover. With it on you cannot get to all the bolts and such.

Hope this helps, but pls give us some more info so we can lend a hand. Also I have a extra cylinder head from a 2.4 engine. Wonder if its the same as yours? If someone knows please let me know.

Joe

HGP,

I'm with Joeaksa, if you are going to do this yourself, try and find someone else whop has a lot of knowledge about rebuilding theses engines.

From your posts to date it sounds like your knowledge of rebuilding 911 is about what mine was 6 months ago (before I did my rebuild) - you need a lot of help. Using books like Wayne’s 101 Projects are very useful, but having someone there who's done it all before is 'priceless'! You might get there without any problems, albeit slowly using the book, but there are plenty of little tricks and workarounds that can make life lot easier. Besides it good just to have someone else there to double check what you are doing - much better for your confidence.

Also, if the heads need work (which they surely will), get them done professionally, without question.

With that said, I wish you the best of luck.

After removing the heat exchanger (learned why those three "holes" are in the bottom of them, other than the lower valve cover to remove, I'm just doing what I call, "one bolt at a time" now. No rush.

Thanks for the sentiment (all, esp, Joe and Sheldon). Call me "Kirk", (my first "name" is technically an initial) I live primarily in a rural area. For the nearly four years now I've owned the Porsche, there is (now was), only one other 911 owner nearby......and has moved. There is not even a foreign/classic car specialty shop located here any longer. 911 shop work basically out of the question, except for about 50-60 miles from here. NOT practical at all. (I tried that)

(Furthermore, the nearest Porsche dealer, about 45 minutes from here, doesn't even carry my parts, and referred me to another over 60 miles away. Also PCA chapters are an in between from where I live)

The engine (exterior), so far has been easy to dismantle (except one exchanger nut access). For now, I'd just like to get to see what the damage is in cylinder #2, if I can figure how to get by the chain, without effecting cam timing. I'm reading Haynes as I go. Not much of a reader, more of a do-er.


Thanks

Like they said, you can't "get by" the chain. You have to slip it off. In order to do that, you have to remove the ramps, tensioner and sprocket. You need a crow's foot wrench and cam holding tool. You will lose the cam timing. You should also consider installing some new parts as you reassemble, like ramps. But, I'm getting too far ahead.

Kirk,

I applaud your willingness to forge ahead.

While you are doing, you most likely will need to line up a machine shop for your head and (potential) cylinder reconditioning work. Bear in mind that not all machine shops understand the needs of an air cooled engine or what are the corrrect reference points for machining the parts back to spec. Most likely you will need to send them somewhere relatively far away. Perhaps, someone in Colorado can give the name of a reputable machine shop that is not too far from you so you can meet the machinst and help him understand your needs.

I faced a similar issue when I redid my heads last year and decided that if I needed to do more than heads and rings, I would be dollars ahead installing a 3.0 L engine. Not only do I get a more robust block, I get a significant hp boost for little or no extra money over the rebuild of my 2.4L.

I would also echo the sentiments of some of the others an encourage you to get Wayne's book and a copy of the Porsche Shop Manual. I think you will only need the first two volumes and these periodically come available on e-bay or in the classifieds here.

Keep us posted.

H.G.P. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, stop working on the engine until you get Wayne's book. You really need to understand what you are looking at as you tear the engine down. This is coming from a guy that, like you, had never rebuilt a 911 engine until this time last year. Even with the book, I took dozens of pictures. Go to a bookstore or spend the few extra dollars to have the book sent to you overnight from Pelican.

I just finished rebuilding my engine which went very well, thank you.
i had rebuilt many, many engines in the past but that was my first 911 engine.
I did lots 'o homework, read everything I could get my hands on, including Wayne's book.
That is in large part what made the rebuild successful.
If I had dove into it without all the knowledge and research and literature i doubt it would have gone as well as it did and my engine had almost no damage, in contrast to yours. Rebuilding your engine will be more complicated and difficult than mine was due to the damaged parts.
I admire your willingness to dive in but it makes me nervous knowing that it will be very easy for you to miss an important detail that could cost a lot of money and cause a lot of damage.
If I were you (and I'm obviously not;) ) I would get wayne's book and study it completely before proceeding.

You need to remove the chain tensioners, at least some of the ramps, and the cam gears before going any further. That requires some custom tools that are detailed in wayne's book. Then remove the chain housings, then cam towers, then heads. Some folks remove the cam towers and heads as an assembly, I don't see the reason to do it that way. At that point you will be able to see the tops of the pistons which will probably have to be removed as well.

It sounds like you have broken a valve.
that will damage the head, possibly beyond repair, it will damage the piston, maybe damaged the cylinder, and possibly damaged the connecting rod, bearings, and maybe even the crank.

Anyone considered the possibility that an object bouncing around in there could have also transmitted damage down the rod and onto the big-end rod bearings?

I'd probably re-do the bottom end since I was already in there.... At a minimum replacement of the big-end bearings is probably warranted...

the fastest way to get the set of heads off is to remove the chain housing after taking off the tensioner, ramp, and sprockets. then the whole lump including all 3 heads, cam tower, cam, rockers, is removed as a unit.
get wayne's book!

And to add to what everyone has suggested so far, use that digital camera to record all the details of the engine before, during and after disassembling a component. Memories aren't so sharp after a few months.

Disassembly is the relatively easy part. The next phase is cleaning, and inspection. After that, it's machine shop and shopping time. The critical time is the manner in which you assemble all the pieces. Throughout the whole process, it's important to be organized. Label all components and subcomponents and group them together along with their particular fasteners. Record measurements for later review.

It's like building or remodeling a house for the first time. If you had to think of all the details beforehand, you'd never start. Instead, you do it one step at a time. It's not rocket science, but there are some things you should know to make this process more efficient, less costly and ultimately, successful.

Sherwood

A digital cam is good (I use one) but not really a substitute for drawing a diagram -- when you snap a pic the image goes into the camera -- when you draw a daigram the image goes into your brain (and on the paper).

You really need to buy the book. The price is nothing as a % of what the parts are going to be.

CS is rgith - it is not much more trouble to split the case after you do everything else on the top end. You can evaluate where you think what peices went and what stress was involved and take the risk of no bottom end damage.... And, how many miles since the last bottom end overhaul? These engines last a long time, but not forever.

Good Luck

"Kirk"

Agree with John's way of doing things for now, its easy and takes everything off together.

Sherwood's idea is something I have done for years now... you cannot have too many photos of the way things come off, and helps a lot putting it back together.

I am a pilot for a living and get to some pretty "rural" areas... what part of the country do you live? Could care less about a Porsche dealer, they would not help you with this. Bet that there is someone in the area or not far who could lend a hand. I will be in three states today alone and none of them is at a major city. If you do not want to post it then PM me. This is not rocket science but it sure helps to have someone there who has done this before.

Also, the books is a very good idea...

Joe

a fly on the wall would think "these are the most serious intense bunch of guys collected anywhere".. imo