997 V aircooled

[Isabo]

I got to see the 997 yesterday, I like it more than the 996 but for me it still doesn't quite make the grade.
What would you rather have: a brand new 997 or a brand new air cooled classic 911 of your choice?
It's a given that the aircooled car has full dealer support and meets all legislative requirements.

That's easy.

[Isabo]

I suppose asking that question here is a bit like asking a convention of wolves to vote on compulsory vegiatarianism
Where I am heading is the proposition that the original 911 package: size, performance (compared to other period cars) engineering, strenght and durability would still be a marketing winner today. TVR is trying to with that approach and seems to be succeeding. I think Porsche has abandonned the faithful, I would like the product to return to its roots (wishful thinking, I know).

Originally posted by Isabo
I think Porsche has abandonned the faithful, I would like the product to return to its roots (wishful thinking, I know).

I agree. Sadly Porsche isn't the only car maker to have done so.

Look at BMW today. Where did the good looks go? Look at Mercedes. The strong top quality car from Deutschland. Today they rust and suffer from bad build quality. VW used to be "the people's car". Today they're too expensive for the people who buy Seat & Skoda instead. The list goes on.

[trader220]

Totally different birds. Now if you wanna do a poll on spending the 85k that a new CarreraS costs vs. Building something aircooled for the same money then IMO you've got a tuff question.

[sketchers356]

Ok who was the one that voted for the 997. Looks like my baseball bat will have double duty today.

[trader220]

I voted for it, you really wanna make something of it? As I said, if I was going to spend 85k on something special to build air cooled its a no brainer, I go air cooled, something like Jack's car. But total package the new Carrera S is hard to beat and I am not a 996 fan in the least bit. Just for the record how big is that bat?

[Paul Franssen]

Mikkel, very very right, Sir.
BTW, I voted for the 997 because I presume I would be offered the choice of cars as a gift to me!

[Dantilla]

The light and nimble Lotus Elise would be tempting for me if it didn't look like an insect, and if it were to prove itself more reliable than a Lotus.

My air-cooled 911 feels "connected". Most modern cars try to isolate the driver from driving. Plush and quiet is fine for a Cadillac, but I want to hear engine noise and squeeling tires. Not watch a GPS navigator or a DVD.

[David W]

As an owner of several 911’s over the years I will put in my 2 cents worth. I have seen the 997 at the local dealer and I think it is OK, but not as exciting as the 993 was when introduced. My salesman told me he had not presold any! A surprise given a major redesign. I have yet to drive one, but will soon. I spent some time comparing a 997 to a 996 that was parked beside it. I really think the 996 looks more modern, except I like the coke bottle sides on the 997. A new one is out of the question for me $$ wise.

Last spring I got a 99 996 Cab on the PCNA pre certified deal. It was $43K, still not cheap. I had looked a new Infiniti G35’s BMW 330i, etc (for less price) and a new Boxster 2.7 5 Speed. The Boxster was nice but not quick enough. So I got the 996 cab and have been very happy.

Some back ground, I am an engineer and do all my own work and have owned/raced 911’s for the last 15 years. I was not to happy about the 996 series but realize you have to have water cooling and 4 valve head technology to get the 100 hp/liter the modern cars are getting. I have owned a 72E RS look street/Race car, 85 cab, 84 Targa, 85 Coupe, and presently have a 72S RS look (highly modified) a 73 Race car (in work) and the 99 cab.

One benefit of buying a dealer car is that my salesman and I have driven about every new car Porsche makes including 04 twin turbo, etc. They have a GT3 but I can’t get my hands on it (rats).

The major advantage of the new cars is chassis rigidly and suspension technology. They handle/ride amazingly well. They corner very flat, yet don’t understeer severely and ride very smooth. The engine in my 99 revs like an old S. You can’t beat technology.
However! The build quality of the material on the 99 is very poor in comparison to the older 911. Cheap plastic bits that break easily. Also they are so smooth and with power steering they are isolated. They are simply so good they are almost boring. I can hardly get the tail to come around on the 996 (it has 18’s). The 04 Twin Turbo was so refined it was like driving by remote control (but it was fast)!

At 80 mph the 996 is smooth and refined. In comparison my 72’s were/are alive, loud and visceral. I am sure a new GT3 would give a more “alive” feeling. For a long trip, the 996 hands town. For track days and a true challenge on back roads, give me a early 911, a true sports cart!

I am fortunate to have both!

Regards, David

[Sonic dB]

Nice post David. Thanks

[bento]

yeah,
great post david. good analysis.

db

[CarreraS2]

I made the following assumptions:

1. The air cooled car would magically be a zero mileage, "new" car. It would be a "basic" production aircooled 911 (i.e. not a '73 RS, but something like an 84-89 Carrera, or 993).

2. Either car would be given to me for free. But I couldn't resell either! (Trying to take money out of the equation).

3. The car would be used as a daily driver.

With those assumptions, I'd take the 997. Maybe I'm getting old.

[David W]

I want to reflect a bit on Brian’s comments about selecting a 997 (and getting old). When I first built my 72E RS look it had 21/27 torsion bars, 22 sway, stiff shocks and no AC (and it gets hot here in Alabama). I was 33 at the time. Not really that young, but now that I am 49 it does! I loved the ride and drove it everywhere. Took trips to North Carolina to the great roads up in the Smokies. Now, and I will be honest, given the same choice I would take my 996. I think age has a factor and that is in fatigue. I am strong as ever, and I work out a lot, but my recovery is a lot slower. I still have my early cars and love them, just in smaller doses. And I am not ready for a caddy (now or ever). If you look at the ownership for most of the 997’s they are 50 year plus owners. Partly because of the ownership cost requires a buyer well into their careers and $$. If Porsche’s were like Lotus’s (more elemental) their market would be much smaller. But if you think about it, even Honda’s now have a huge array of comfort options.

I wish Porsche did make a Boxster RS style coupe with a 3.4 engine, stripped except for AC and ABS for $45K, wishful thinking I guess. I don’t care for the PSM, etc but I have found ABS to be useful, epically in the wet.

I think the only way to have a true sports car and it be a Porsche is to build or buy an early car (69-73 or a stripped Carrera/SC), the later cars are GT’s. They are simply too heavy to be called a sports car. 3,200-3,500 lbs is ridiculous for something to called a sports car.

[Wrecked944]

I voted 997. The S model goes 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. That's a full second faster than my 964. And in my world, a sportscar is about speed first. Heritage, magic, etc are secondary. And until somebody builds a reliable aircooled flat six with 350+ n/a hp, I'll take a 977, please.

[sketchers356]

Surprising how the poll started as 16-0 in favor of aircooled.


I dont know about you guys but I like to work on my car. Thats why I come to this site and read this forum. Not so I know which mechanic to send my car to but rather how to do it my self.

Thats one reason that I like older (aircooled) Porsches; I can work on them myself and do machine shop work in the lab myself(one of the benefits of being a physicist). Also, the support group of guys like you is terrific.

I pride myself for knowing how my car works (at least a appreciable amount) and that I am not some rich idiot that drives a car with high numbers in the magazines and shiny badges; rather a true gearhead.

I let my mechnic work on my ford because I dont have the equipment. I work on my Porsche because that is half the reason that I own it. If I was to have a 997 I would not do half of the work on it as it is more complicated than my ford I am sure.

I'm probally alot younger than alot of people here, but what comfort that the 997 has that a true (lol wont go there) 911 does not have? Are power butt scratchers that critical?

Also, frankly I have too much power for US roads already. Does 1 second of acceleration matter? No, you can always have more power I guess.

As for my bat it is is a 5.3 kg rocket propeled titanium one.

[adscab]

I think a more realistic poll would be to ask what car you would buy if you had $XXX? For example, for approximately $80K, you could get

almost any 996 including the TT, C4S
almost any 993 including the TT, C4S, C2S
almost any 964 including the 3.6T, AR
almost any 911 including 930, cabs, slantnose, RS (?)

[Porschekid962]

Im pretty sure I would go for a 997. Air cooling, water cooling that argument is a silly one. At least its still a boxer. 996 GT3 or 997S (GT3 looks pretty darn nice) are my choice. As much fun as the older cars are thats exactly what they are, older cars. Just look at how powerful the 996 GT3 engine is, you would have to go all out on an air cooled engine to get that same performance.

[PorscheGuy79]

A better question would be would you rather a 80k brand new 997 or a 911 with 50k to do whatever you like to it. Oh the possiblities...Hello GT Racing, yeah ill take one of each.

[bento]

Don't forget you can't really track it though without the Porsche Motorsports North America oil sump modification that voids the warranty immediately (a la 996).

db (still haven't voted).