I ran into a WRX STI on the way home today...

[rdane]

I have played with the standard WRX on the free way in my old 3.0 a couple of time. My car is 2400#, has 4 short gears and then 183 at the rear wheels. Standard WRX got spanked every time from 50 to 130...easily.

Tonight I was expecting a new story with different cars. What appeared to be a new WRX STI and a CIS 3.4 (223 @ rwheels) in the same old '79 SC. Played a little tag until we hit a open section of divided highway. 4 miles all up hill with a few curves on dry roads and clear of traffic. We both slowed down for a couple of semis making a slow second gear pass. We both cleared the trucks with me following when he jumps on it. I can see his car hitting gears by the way it is unweighting. I am doing the same in similar time frames @ similar speeds.

I suspect we started somewhere around 40/45 mph. That is about 42/4300 rpm in second gear for me...and where my car just loves and gets nothing but better to a 7000 redline. Each new gear gained several feet...almost half a car length on the STI. By the time I was winding out 4th at 6000+rpm (100mph) I could have easily passed the STI but was blocked unintentionally as I ran up his rear bumper on a corner. I had LOTs more to go and another gear. I know he did too but it just wasn't there in time to make an impression.

I was hopeing for more of a challenge to be honest. STI is a nice car but I was about to run away from him before I figured the point was made and pulled over....Valentine was screaming from behind which ended our fun.

No ticket BTW, by the time I got stopped and made the turn around the trooper just drove right on by me

I am thinking it was my torque and going up hill that gave the STI such a dismal showing?

Thoughts?

[Stanley]

Are you sure he was actually racing you going all out? STI has 300 hp, 300 ft-lbs torque and a 6speed.

[WydRyd]

Well done

Whilst I don't really bother dragging cars these days, one STI had the misfortune of toying with me the other day. Let's just say I don't think he'll act like a smart ar$e and drive up 911 butts anymore

[1fastredsc]

Originally posted by Stanley
Are you sure he was actually racing you going all out? STI has 300 hp, 300 ft-lbs torque and a 6speed.

It also has AWD, meaning that it loses a lot more power to the ground then we do. Therefore it doesn't get anywhere near 300hp to the ground.

[JP911]

The STI is definitely heavier and there must be at least a 15% drivetrain loss caused by the awd. That puts the whp down to about 255.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by 1fastredsc
It also has AWD, meaning that it loses a lot more power to the ground then we do. Therefore it doesn't get anywhere near 300hp to the ground.

That's not the biggest difference, it's the weight.

[WydRyd]

The Nissan GTR loses approx 40% across the AWD Drivetrain (at least, that's what I'm told by a GTR tuner), so I suspect the Scooby will be between 30-40%

At the end, it's the power:weight ratio that makes the difference.

[NoLift911]

The STi is a nice ride but it gets wheezy up high...off the line it is a bullet. I took one for a "spirited" test drive. I also had one on order before they came out but it just didn't do it for me so I bailed and got my deposit back.

Up high is not the STi's strong suit - I was driving home from Boston this past weekend and playing with one that looked/sounded heavily modified. We were on the Bronx Expressway in NY, I was in my Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland.

I am around 285hp but close to 4000 lbs. I have custom valved bilsteins, adjustable fat sways, urethane bushings, yadi, yadi - so the Jeep handles very well for an SUV, it surprises many cars.

I don't think his suspension was setup corrrectly as he was lowered quite a bit more than it seemed like it could handle - he was very bouncy and jerky.

Anyway - we weaved through some very thick traffic at high speed for a number of miles - he could not shake me and I even pulled up next to him a number of times when we got side-by-side - from 80+ he couldn't pull me when I was full bore. The 4.7 HO engine is no slouch in the Jeep but I thought he would do better than that. Yes - he was trying as his girl was with him and he was seemingly very pissed the black Jeep wouldn't leave him alone. I got loads of dirty looks when we were side by side.

My wife was laughing and my dog was holding on for dear life but it was a great time. I said to myself I was glad I didn't buy one.

I opted for an M5 instead with 400hp - giddy up!!

-Jeff
nolift911@hotmail.com

[Adam]

155kw old WRXs would struggle to throw down more than 90all-wheel kws on a 4-wheel dyno. Merv's spot on about a 35-40% drivetrain loss...

[rdane]

Originally posted by Stanley
Are you sure he was actually racing you going all out?

Ya, that was certainly my impression....
Cutting me off because he couldn't keep his car in its own lane @ 100+ was another clue

May be he was toying with me but I doubt it other wise you would have thought he wouldn't allow me to be right on his rear bumper for much of the fun. Didn't realise they had a 6th gear now it makes sense why he had one more lag while I pulled him hard in 4th. My airport 4th already wound up and his 5th just getting started...no question why I was pulling him.

Street drags don't mean a lot but then you don't have to be a great driver to partake either.

It is just an observation I thought you guys might enjoy with all the subbie talk.

FWIW, Not many late '80s 911 turbos that can run away from me either in similar circumstances.

Did I mention I love my car

[WydRyd]

The scarey thing about RWD 911 Turbos is if pushed over the edge whilst taking a bend, it can be extremely unforgiving. Try taking a 911 Turbo around a sweeping bend and the boost kicks in and you feel the rear end breaking away and you quickly realise just how scarey things can get if you continue on the throttle.

It takes a certain kind of driver to drive a Turbo 911 flat stick around corners and keep the car on the track/road. Totally different scenario for an AWD Turbo I'd say.

Having said that, a 911 Turbo really shines on the top end. Not much can keep up, up top that's for sure

P.S: Currently dreaming of a Twin Turbo AWD 993

[aschen]

155kw old WRXs would struggle to throw down more than 90all-wheel kws on a 4-wheel dyno. Merv's spot on about a 35-40% drivetrain loss

The driveline loss is big on the scoobies but 40% doesent sound right to mee....
A stock 227 hp wrx puts down 185 hp on a conservitive dyno and a 300hp sti pulls about 235 hp for comparision a993tt of 996tt pulls about 330 hp

223 rwh in a 2400lb porsche should be a very fast car. It doesent suprise me that you could take an sti but you shouldnt have killed him. Stis are geared pretty short and require alot of shifting they shine from a stop not a freeway role. They are not quite as areodybamic as a refrigerator. My stock 930 puts 265 hp to the rear wheels I dont think it would give an sti much trouble accept at high speeds. Even though it has higer peak power and less weight the gearing and more narow power band would hurt it I think.

[WydRyd]

Originally posted by aschen
My stock 930 puts 265 hp to the rear wheels I dont think it would give an sti much trouble accept at high speeds. Even though it has higer peak power and less weight the gearing and more narow power band would hurt it I think.

That's where the G50 5spd shines over the stock 4spd 930 gearbox. OK, a lot more shifting on the G50, but quicker acceleration off the line.

However, I also love the tall gears of the 930 4 spd.

I guess it's all a compromise whichever way you look at it

[alf]

I would like to see an STi on the track. I think they are great cars, but they are not for me. Sort of like a quartz watch and a mechanical watch.

alf

[Early_S_Man]

The WRXs are overweight ... 3400 - 3500 lbs, and those tiny 300 nipponese ponies are overstated, too, by DIN standards!

A turbocharged engine shouldn't lose anything at altitude compared to a normally-aspirated engine!!!

[rdane]

223 rwh in a 2400lb porsche should be a very fast car. It doesent suprise me that you could take an sti but you shouldnt have killed him. Stis are geared pretty short and require alot of shifting they shine from a stop not a freeway role.

My car is also very short geared. Looked like we were gear for gear to the upper part of my 4th where he hit fifth and I could have passed him easily with another 1000rpm left in the peddle. I am also a good bit under 5.0sec 0 to 60 but it is rough on the car. 2nd gear rolling starts are just the ticket to show case my gear box and engine @ 250# of torque.

Pretty much put the Sti into perspective for me. I don't need one.
I do however need a 2100#, N/A 300+ hp 911.

[Victor]

Shut up with the bench racing/mucking around in traffic stories like schoolboys.

Here are some comparative CIRCUIT LAP times:

Calder Raceway:
WRX Sti 1:04.650

993GT2 (Race prepped) 1:05.822
911 3.2 1:16.215
911SC 1:15.989


Don't even want to think how much slower any 911 older than an SC would be.

Some of you chooks need to get out on the track and put your money/trash talk where your mouths are.

[sdether]

Originally posted by WydRyd
The scarey thing about RWD 911 Turbos is if pushed over the edge whilst taking a bend, it can be extremely unforgiving. Try taking a 911 Turbo around a sweeping bend and the boost kicks in and you feel the rear end breaking away and you quickly realise just how scarey things can get if you continue on the throttle.

When I first started looking at 911's I was dead set on a 911 Turbo, coming from an MR2 Turbo and loving the sound of it spooling up. After driving two (79 and 85, i think), i decided they were too scary. The lag was horrible, the kick so sudden and powerful. Amazing on a straight line, but not something you want to have happen on a turn.

Next 911 I drove was a 70 911E and I was hooked on the feel of a lightweight chassis. That one slipped through my fingers, but now I have a 69 911E. Nothing beats lightweight in my book.

[stuartj]

Victor, your thrashing at the hands of the WRX boys has made you wise indeed.

Say, what factor would a wet track add to those numbers d'you reckon?

I can also add that my standard, unmodded 98 WRX was consistently quicker at Winton, Phillip Is, Calder and Sandown circuits than my 3.2. Its performance envelope is almost identical to my 964 C4. The Sti is a good bit quicker than a standard WRX. What saves we Porsche drivers from Subarus is that they are driven by puddings and we ofcourse all drive like Vern Schuppen.

When the flag drops, as the saying goes, the bull**** stops.

Merv, I dont know about your turbo car, but isnt the throttle off oversteer more of an issue in the 911?

stuart

[Victor]

Originally posted by stuartj


When the flag drops, as the saying goes, the bull**** stops.



stuart

Around here the saying is more something like:

"When the lights go green the bull**** starts"