Ignition Module
 

Hi All - my "mechanic" said I needed a new ignition module, wires, plugs etc. The quote for the entire deal is around $3500. What gives?

Any thoughts?

A little background on what type of car, engine numbers/type and other basic information would probably allow us to help you.

1977 911 Carrera. I don't know the engine number off hand... I was having problems with the fuel pump and that was "supposedly" fixed. The car was constatnly stalling at idle and now refuses to start. There is no way I can afford what this guy is quoting me and he is not too keen on after-market parts as it cuts his %. For $3500 I should be able to do a lot more than the ignition system...

you can have the Bosch CD unit rebuilt. It's on the rear elec panel.

First, Welcome to the board. Sorry to mention that before. I see you are new here.

This will be a CIS (Bosch Continuous Injection System) car. First a little background. Does the car stall when cold, warm or both? What is the idle speed? Is this problem every time you drive it or occasionally? does it stumble before cutting out or will it just not idle at all? How does it run at higher rpms? If at all, what speed does it clear up?

I will tell you that $3500 for an ignition tune-up even with replacement factory parts and installation is a RIP OFF!!!

There are a few trouble shooting things you can easily do to see if it is your ignition. What tools do you have? Some of these tests will require a few basic tools.

Do you have the factory tool kit that came with your car? Do you have a electronic multimeter? You will likely need both to correctly diagnose the problem.

First your ignition system is either working or not. The car will not run if you need a new ignition box. Even so, a rebuilt unit is only about $300 or so. You likely need a tuneup. It may be the electronic points that trigger the ignition unit, your distributor cap and rotor, the spark plugs and plug wires that need some attention.

Once we have a bit more information we can help you out.

Thanks for the welcome Jamie! I do have the original tool kit, but unfortunately it is a bit rusty. I can round up some tools though. On to the stalling. The car seems to die both warm and cold. The problem usually occurs slowing down or stopping when I put the car into neutral. The only thing that "saves" it is down shifting then popping the clutch. (obviously not a good idea.) With regards to the idle speed, it is difficult to tell because the car rarely idles, but rather, completely dies. The guy originally told me it was the fuel pump and supposedly fixed it . In addition, he found a toggle kill-switch but that doesn't seem to be connected any longer. I understand that these earlier years are going to take time and money, but I really can't afford to get ripped off!

Liz,

If you try a search you will find there is a lot of info on running problems like this, and tests you can do to determine the likely cause of your problem. Stalling can have many causes, incl ignition (plugs, points, wires, CDI) fuel delivery (fuel pump, injectors, relays, lines, fuel distributor) battery and grounds, mixture, vacuum leaks, blown airbox, distributor, bad gas, clogged fuel filter. It goes on...

Remember, you need fuel, air and spark to get and keep the engine running.

Always start w/ the easy/cheap items first. If you turn up any odd things or can report on any running conditions, that will help w/ a diagnosis.

Man, they are trying to rip you off! This was the first problem/project I did on my car 2 1/2 years ago. I bought a new PermaTune, coil, plugs, wires, etc... all for under $800 and did the work myself. Not too difficult (get Wayne's book as well as the Haynes's and Chilton manuals, too) and I learned alot about my car. Don't get ripped off!!

I did find the PermaTune for a reasonable price online. There is no way this guy is gonna let me get the parts and only charge labor. I really screwed myself here because I need him to release my car! AAA towed it to this shop because the driver worked out of the place. I did NOT authorize any repairs, but how much "exploratory" work can the guy possibly do??? Sucks to be a chic and a novice at that!!! I am really getting taken advantage of. Thank god for you all! HELP...

Liz,
Pay the guy his "diagnostic fee" and get the car the heck out of there. If you're not mechanically inclined, this isn't really a tough project, it was my first and I didn't know ANYTHING about Porsches at the time. There is ample technical stuff here and you don't need to buy a garage full of tools, either. Good luck and welcome aboard!!

Thanks Art - wanna buy a great car? Dirt cheap.

It sounds like he may have messed up the mix when "adjusting" the fuel pump.

Read the last post in this thread:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143967&highlight=clutch +stall

More info:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179247&highlight=decel% 2A+stall

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98680&highlight=decel%2 A+stall

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138867&highlight=decel% 2A+stall

We have a lot of good guys in the Chicago area. I will alert them to your plight and maybe someone can help ya out!

Steve

Thanks Steve - he said he would degrease the engine. So far all the guy has done is make the problem worse. Hopefully your referral isn't this guy! (HAHA)

Liz,

Don't give up or get discouraged! We have all "been there" and you'll look back on this and laugh some day. You need to get a good, honest "Porsche person" to look at your car. Do you know anyone from your local PCA group there? My local Porsche club has alot of knowledgeable, friendly people who love to help "newbies". One of the guys I met here ("Michigan") actually drove over to my house to help me with my car. Great cars, great people, you'll be OK!!

Art - how long would it take ya to get here from SE Michigan? Just kidding. Thanks for the great advice. I truly appreciate the help.

Nope its a subgroup of DIY* guys from here. They can be pretty hardcore and might tear the engine down for irreversible modification as well as put on some fiberglass bumpers. GruppeB maintains their cars for themselves and not the next owner :)

It sounds like your wrench's specialty is not Porsches? I can't see how degreasing the engine is going to help this problem any. This board is an immeasurable resource. I have learned so much here that I would have never expected I would. Keep reading and absorb as much as you can. My car hasn't been back to a Porsche pro wrench since I bought it last fall. If you can't do it yoursef, you can at least speak the language and show your wrench you know what's what.

If you *do* need an ignition module you can get the MSD (do your research on Permatune - I'm warning you :) ) an install it in an afternoon. I bought it here (~$300) along with the coil, plugs, rotor, wires and everything else I needed and I doubt it topped $500. Oh what I could have done with $3500! If it comes to that there's lot, lots, lots, of goo information to d the job yourself. We'll walk you through it.

*DIY

Liz,

I remember your post on the midwest forum and Chris Streit responded. I know you might have been reluctant to take it to him since its not a 'normal' shop set up, but that would have been the route to go ;).

Here's an example of Chris fixing a dealer $#@& up after a buddy of mine was in for $3,500k...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165976&highlight=igniti on+968

Chris has a new addition to the family and might not be available right away, but Souk may be interested in the work. Both are really honest guys and do P-car work 'on the side'.

What shop did you take it to? Are you in the city or the burbs?

Hey Guys - I have been bugging Chris to death, I'm sure. Glad to hear about the new addition. I know he is busy... I am in the city (Old Town.) I can get to the burbs, I just need to be able to get home when the trains are still running. How the heck do I get in touch with Souk? BTW - I saw the threads and pics about the training at Chris's. What a great idea. I would like to volunteer my car to any of you hot shots that need "practice." Sort of like a pimp my ride deal...can't hurt to ask. I can provide beer and free legal advice in return.

Liz,

I sent you a PM with some contact information for the Chicago guys.