A sad day, I need some help coping . . .
 

My wife and I sat down today and in an effort to have her spend more time with our young daughter, we decided a drastic reduction in spending is in order. Unfortunately, this means I have to part ways with my beautiful 86 Carrera Targa. However, as part of the automotive cost reduction I will also likely be moving my 95 Audi Quattro which has served me well as a daily driver. As replacement for these two german gems I will be looking for a compromise, a vehicle that car serve as a daily driver and a backroad carver/breakfast runner/track-day star.

I am hoping to get some expert advice from the pelican board members to help me on this search. The vehicle needs to have a couple of qualities. First, some room, I am 6'3" and 225lbs., so I need some clearance. Second, it must have all-wheel drive. I live in the snowbelt area south of bufalo,ny and often get 8-16" of snow in a shot. Third, it must be able to be thrashed around on backroads and leave a grin on my face, maybe not as big as the one I get from ripping a flat six, but it still needs to do it with verve so I can blow-off some steam. My price range is from 20-30k, and the car can be new or used if it meets the above criteria.

One car that has peaked my interest is the Volkswagen R32, and I may take one for a spin this week. The Mitsu EVO and Subaru STI are also on the list, but might be stretching my budget.

I am interested in anyone's thoughts or suggestions as I begin my quest.

As always, thanks in advance!
Roamer
:(

Sounds like a C4S is in order.

Twice this year I had students with Evo's... they are very capable cars

Hi, its unfortunate that you have to part ways with the Porsche but hopefully you can replace the smile with something just as fun, or at least allmost as fun.

Heres how I can help, I consider my self to be a fairly good book resource for the vehicles you listed above. I am far more into the driving pleaser than most kids my age who would rather just have the looks and the straight line speed. I also gather all my research from many many magazines as well as TV shows, but I have never been able to have a drive myself. With that said here are my thoughts as well as some of my compiled research on the cars.

The Sti. The US spec Sti comes to the table with 300hp and 300ftbls, of the group this is the most powerful of the bunch. Its engine displacement of 2.5L is more than the Mitsu's giving it a bit more low down grunt and also letting it rely less on the turbo boost. From what I have heard, maybe others can back me up on this, the Subaru grib is, with lack of a better word, god-like. Very sticky tires as well as a well sorted suspension and AWD system keep this car glued to the road. With all great things there are weaknesses, first a big thing for me with the STi is that, at the limit, it understeers. The car also is said to feel a lot heavier than its competition even though the Evo and the STi share the same weight. Anyway on the the Evo.

Since the Evo's quailties are fairly similar to the STi's I will just cut this down a bit. The Evo is amazing fun, you can just chuck this into a corner and it will just give you a wild ride and at the end of it you, and the car, will be okay. It doesnt have as much power as the STi does but never shows this, in fact the Evo seems to be a bit lighter on its feet. Down sides for the 8, first the lag. The very large turbo combined with the 2.0L of displacement mean you wont have a ton of power until after 3500rpm but after that the thing sends your eyeballs through your headrests. Second, the Evo has a 5speed box, fewer gears mean longer gears means that you will have to rev it harder and father to stay out of the 3500rpm dead zone. In my opinion thats a good thing. :D

And last but not least the R32. This car is a very cool car, great naturally asperaited motor, killer sound and very much respected a little more than its rivials. It is much more of the sutel supercar, looking very much like the other golfs. But then again it doesnt have the aggression that the spoilers and scoops bring with them. The drive isnt, from what I hear, as invigorating as its conterparts either. But what it trades for those things are a simple lined chassis that you can drive around town without the cops beening the wiser but at the end of the day you can take the long way home and get the lead out.

With any of the machines you are making a good choice. There is no right answer just good ones. But if I had to choose, which it would probably require a spirited test drive, I would end up with the Evo. I am a huge Subaru guy, but the Mitsu is just too much fun to pass up.

I don't understand the logic of selling an '86 Carrera so you can turn around and buy a $20-30K daily driver. Assuming the Carrera is worth $15K, that puts you at a net loss of $15K if you spent the $30K. How is that a "drastic reduction in spending"? And any new $30K car will loose 1/2 it's value in 4 years.

Why not just continue to the drive the '95 Audi and keep the Porsche? If you get collector car insurance for the Porsche, it shouldn't cost more than $200/year to insure.

If the Audi really needs to be replaced buy a 3 or 4 year old car to replace it.

Good luck with your chioce, I hope my info helped. BTW if you have any quesitons or want more info feel free to email me or send me a PM.

Get a regular WRX. You can pick a new one up for $24K, then get Cobb Stage 2 for $1600, and you will have about 270 HP, and AWD. I don't think the extra $9K for the STI is worth it, with so many aftermarket parts, plus the 2.5L motor in the STI has not been used for as long as the 2.0L in the regular WRX. Ofcourse if you beat the 5sp transmission in the WRX it will break.

I would be concerned with Mitsu's long term warrenty coverage.

I ofcoruse am biased, as I have an 04 WRX.

Bill

to bad you didn't want an Accord.. the brides 2dr is off 3yr lease soon. 15.6k mi and garaged.

Add my voice to those above who say you're not really saving any money with your plan. How much do you think you'll get for the Carrera and the Audi combined? Won't be 30k, I assure you. If you want to generate some cash, then you have three options:

1. Sell the Audi and make the 911 the daily driver.
2. Sell the 911 and live with your Audi.
3. Sell both and buy a CHEAPER car. Like no more than $10-15k.

Face facts, man. There's no way to drastically reduce spending without feeling pain. It requires you to re-evaluate your priorities. Having a fun car to drive is a luxury you apparently have decided to forgo.

Maybe he out to show this to his wife.

Also, the first sentence doesn't make any sense unless she is quitting her job. But, he doesn't say. I guess we just have to assume that's the point of all this.

So, if she is quitting her job, she doesn't need a car. Sell hers.

If she has to go out for groceries or to the doctor, she drives the Audi that day and he drives the Carrera. If the snow is 10" deep, I wouldn't go to work anyway. Then, nobody drives the P. (Or she takes him to work).

I don't know. Seems like there's a lot of ways around this.

Makes no sense at all. Both cars are paid for. You need to cut back... so you're going to buy another car??? If you need the $$, sell the porsche and grit your teeth in the 95 Audi.

You almost never save money by selling used cars and buying a new car. I'm confused. In fact, it's difficult to save money at all in any plan that involves buying a car because there are always other costs involved like tax and an increased insurance in a new car or unforeseen repairs in an old car. The point is that the only way to save money is keep your old cars or sell one and don't buy another.

My question is why buy new???? :confused: Depreciation will gouge you if you decide to buy something else later on. And why buy a small midsize like the Subie, Mitsu. or VW? Plus the Evo is supposed to be harsh in the ride department. Probably tiresome day in, day out.

What's wrong with a good used Audi S4? http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif

It's got everything you need. Performance, AWD, 4 doors, and it's an Audi so you're staying in the family!

I don't know. I had a Jag XK-140 at the bottom of its depreciation cycle and I loved it dearly. But it wasn't reliable and at that time I had to pay someone to fix it when it would'nt start. When I went to graduate school, I had to make a tough choice. The Jag had to go. I got a cr***py Ford Galaxy 500. But it had a warrenty and was reliable. It always ran when I needed it and helped me get where I am today.... The proud owner of a much better P car. Go figure. Each case is different. In retrospect I made the right choice. Good luck with yours.

Five characters "E36 M3"

Jim

Is the "we" really you and your wife, or is "we" really "she":)? I ask because like some of the above fellows, I feel your math isn't adding up.

I've met a lot of guys who have said "we", but I know it was "she". Their wives have made them give up their favorite cars. What the wives often don't understand is that a paid for Porsche of that vintage is basically a rolling savings account. If you don't pile too many miles on it and take good care of it, it shouldn't drop too much, if at all, in value. If it does drop, it won't be by much. It's near the end of it's depreciation cycle and is, or is soon to be, an appreciating classic.

Basing my opinion on info provided, I would stand pat with the Audi as the d.d., and the 911 as the weekend smile car. Unless of course marital harmoney is being jeapordized. Then you don't want my opinion at all:).

And the answer is......keep the Porsche, sell the old Audi and buy a used ('01 or '02) Audi A6 2.7T with certified pre-owned warranty.........approx $22k for luxury, performance, AWD ,timeless styling, room for kids and strollers, track capable, low insurance and someone allready paid the depreciation.......
Sam.

*edit* you could just keep all the toys and get rid of the wife!!.

He needs all wheel drive, otherwise I was going to suggest that as well. :D I'm currently in the process of searching for such a car. Not much luck so far. Lotsa rough examples around my area & it's hard to justify the price of a E36 M3 vs. the cool & more practical Mazda 3 hatchback.......... Who needs practical, right?

Back on topic......................

sell the audi, keep the 911 as a daily driver. For the life of me I don't understand why most people think these are weekend/sunny day cars...

because you hit curbs with 911's and you cant go over speed bumps. AND they aren't "comfy" cars

If winter is an issue slap some blizzaks on the P and keep it. I drove my 84 targa for two years full time here in CO... These cars are built to be driven. In Germany they drive them all the time...

If the cost of "upkeep" is an issue (minor) start turning a wrench yourself. Most things are very doable by the DIYer... Wayne's book is the first start.

Unless I'm loosing my house, the p-car stays in the garage. PERIOD. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to sell it. The project could go, but the Carrera is home for good. It's a loss to try to sell it. And money issues are always temporary. If you must save on insurance get collector car ins. Mine is about 150.00 every 6 months...

Sorry but your not going to get a lot of what you may want to hear. You will be losing money in the end for a deal that makes no sense. To rant... it DRIVES ME CRAZY to hear about the old "can't drive the p-car everyday" GARBAGE... drive and enjoy...
The car will be fine.

An early 911 with snow tires...bad boy motor and a few bags of sand up front ain't nothing to sneeze at in the snow.....

Sell the $12K Audi, put $10K more in to buy a $22K Audi.

And that puts money in his pocket by . . . :confused:

OK, since we're all theorizing here...I think he's pretty excited about getting rid of two old cars and getting something new.

I think it was more a case of him needing a newer, low cost, all in one,practical family car with AWD otherwise he wouldn't be talking WRXsti or Evo etc. as a replacement........money in his pocket isn't going to happen either way, the foresight is having a car that's big enough for a family, has a warranty and allows the P-car to go on low mileage insurance policy thereby saving $'s .
Hey ,he could always get a caravan.!!...

I once saw a family of four riding a Harley with sidecar, in the rain, on the freeway! :rolleyes:

The 911 is a VERY practical car.

;)

00, 01, 02 audi S4. Heck I almost signed for one when I was 18 and I dont have the best credit. Car had 20K on the clock and I was able to talk the dealer to 18k because of some bs bodywork that could have been very easily repaired. I still think those cars are a gas to drive, very plush interiors compared to an old Pcar and any new mitsu or suby.

I manage to avoid curbs (although I do scrape my driveway). I go over speed bumps just fine...I slow down for them.

As for comfy...well, I guess if you're so inclined, then by all means get the overboosted power steering, plush riding barge boat. And sell the 911 to someone who will actually drive it. These cars have always been touring cars, and they make excellent daily drivers. Unless you value comfort over vibe.

This does not apply to people who have to trailer their car to the track. If you've modded that far, it really isn't usable as a daily driver.

not that I'm cranky or anything tonight SmileWavy

Tod...you hit it on the head, I think. The guy is just rationalizing selling his beloved 911 (and audi) and really just wringing his hands until he can get his hands on a hot, new sedan. Obviously I upped the drama quotient to make it a more interesting, 911 elimination conspiracy theory....


R/
Dustin

So WTF??? Not comfortable? Compaired to what? I'm just fine driving mine...:rolleyes:

I'm not cranky either...;)

Keep in mind this guy lives in *Buffalo*. The record for snowfall there is 3 feet *in one day*.

And I'll argue with you guys about using the 911 as a daily driver. To me, it's just a waste. The car is so fast and so capable, it's just flat frustrating to toodle around town in it.

I find my Gli or 2002 a lot more fun on the street because I can use a substantial part of the cars capabilities without drawing too much attention.

Now the guys who let a 911 sit AND don't take them to the track are knuckleheads.

Buffalo? They have wings there, right?

Sorry, I don't understand this thing you call "snow".

As for toodling around town, you just have to stay in 2nd gear on the freeway...then you can have plenty of fun.

Besides, if I'm stuck in traffic, I'd rather be surrounded by my Sparcos and roll bar and air-cooled smells than by some comfy cruiser. But I'm weird that way...

Don't take the R32 for a test drive...you'll end up buying it....ask me how I know...

However the depreciation on a new car alone will cost you more than running the Carrera (assuming you own the P-car outright)

Buffalo, well Geof and I live in colorado, and I drive to the mountains in the winter, maybe Geof does too.

I understand why people want to use the cars as a daily to preserve it or to keep it special for the weekend, but when they are only worth ~15k the money savings just doesn't work out to buy another car, especially if you do your own work. Even if it's an old toyota, you still have the insurance, registration, etc. But most don't have an old toyota as their other car.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having a porsche as a fun car only, but I think it's rarely cheaper to have an additional car as your daily.

Snow or no snow, IMO.

I think it is time for me to chime back in as people are making too many assumptions on my behalf . . .

1. The wife stays, period. The decision was mutual given the totality of the circumstances. She is also giving up her new Eddie Bauer Explorer to buy a used Subaru Forester with the equity.

2. The Porsche is being sold to generate a nest egg that can be used to cover costs while she looks for a part-time position. The Audi will be kept until she gets a new job at which time the Audi can be sold and the nest egg can be used toward a new car. Since the Audi has 180k miles on her now, I don't see an extended life without MAJOR repair costs which exceed the value of the car.

3. The Porsche is not paid for and the interest rate is high.

4. The Porsche CANNOT be driven in Buffalo winters. The snow is either too deep or the salt will eat the car alive. The car means too much to me to have it destroyed.

5. I barely drive the car now since it is not safe to leave it at work and I hardly have any time with a young kid at home to take fun runs. I put 2100 miles on her this year INCLUDING a trip to cape cod (1100 miles). Normally she just sits in the garage and collects dust. If I get out 12-15 times per year, that is a lot.

6. The combination of high maintenance/repair costs for both cars and a lousy interest rate on the Porsche make a slightly used car with a warranty a better plan. In addition, in NY insurance is rediculous, I could save $500-700 on insurance by consolidating (and I have the Porsche insured as a "parade" car).

I am not happy about the sacrifice, but I am looking for a stop-gap until I can get a 993 C2S in the next 5-7 years as a result of a number of anticipate changes in our finacial situation. While I appreciate the financial input, I have already evaluated your arguments and in the end, the current (not total) costs to me are lower if I just have one car. Let's stick to cars guys.

Langers, I am interested to hear your thoughts, thanks.

Cranky, ey? You asked for advice, don't get all upset when you get it.

There are two conditions in your predicament that make any further discussion useless, #1 and #3. Next time you get a Porsche, make sure you pay for it outright, and always contemplate the possibility of divorce.

Roamer,

You have a PM.
Thanks.

I realize you probably don't want to hear it (more financial input here), but if you ever want to "get ahead" financially, then it is absolutely essential that you get out of the "monthly payment" mindset and always consider the total costs when making purchase decisions.

I assumed the 911 was paid for. I'd forgotten the joy of car payments (all of our cars are paid off, and I refuse to cycle one out for a "new one").

Carry on...

me too! My tahoe has 180,000 and Our van has 35,000 and the 911 100,000 non are going any where but are paid for. Makes a huge difference. But that always does not work for everyone