911 Turbo vs. 600kW Eliica

[cegerer]

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=8762&vf=4&bg=1&pp=0

[OZCarrera3]

What people don't 'get' about electric cars is that it takes electricity to recharge them. The electricity in most cases is generated using coal powered generators at the power stations that contribute far more 'dangerous' green house gases etc than internal combustion engines. So any reduction in pollution from the cars is negated by the extra output from the power stations.

[notfarnow]

So any reduction in pollution from the cars is negated by the extra output from the power stations.

...and even then, isn't the "loss" along along the power lines as high as 25%?

Then you have the issue of using batteries in cold climates, where they are virtually useless.

And THEN, what happens when these batteries need to recycled every few years?

Junk. I can't believe people are still trying to peddle electric cars as serious alternatives.

[Matt Smith]

What about countries where it is not too cold- of which there are a few. Still junk?

[notfarnow]

I think OZCarrera3's point holds true nomatter where electric cars are used... the electricity has to be produced somehow, and it usually isn't clean. The coal generator near my city certainly doesn't have a catytic converter, and doesn't meet any stringent environmental codes... unlike the average new car.

Now hybrid electric, that's another story...

[1fastredsc]

What about nuclear power, or even fusion technology?

[randywebb]

"far more 'dangerous' green house gases etc than internal combustion engines"

Incorrect for any number of reasons. 1. The power is usually genrated outside the airshed of interest. This is a large benefit in LA as the power often comes from NW hydro, esp. in summer. So the pollution is made elsewhere, often where it can be more easily tolerated.
2. Greenhouse gases are bad, but no comparison to O3 and NOx from cars.
3. It is much much easier to reduce pollution from a single stationary source than from thousands of mobile sources.
4. Elec. cars let you use other power sources such as wind, and eventually PV.
There are others, but that ought to be enough.

[Yargk]

I heard somewhere that 40% of the mercury poisoning in fish is due to coal burning power plants. If you didn't know, the current levels in say, tuna, are supposedly safe for you to eat like 12 oz in a week. However, swordfish can have 15 times this level so less than an oz will not be safe. People living in coastal communities that eat fish have begun to complain about headaches and memory loss due to mercury poisoning. I don't eat seafood anymore.

Side note: Clinton didn't burden the Coal burning power plants with retrofitting to clean up their act immediately, instead he simply required them to meet new standards when they upgraded and repaired their facilities. They didn't comply, so he began suing them all. Then Bush got into office and dropped every suit. Then I also hear about work to downgrade mercury off the poisons list, I guess to make it easier to not control the emission into the environment.

I don't think electric cars will work because of where they get the power and the fact that batteries still don't hold enough energy compared to how much they weigh. It also bothers me that people blame the car when we have partial zero emissions commuter car options out there. The problem obviously isn't the car or the car manufacturer, it's the buyer that commutes in an explorer or hummer. Car manufactures only reflect the buyer. I'm not an eco freak, I just want to be able to eat seafood without risk of brain damage. I hope environmentalists realize that the car is a very nice solution to transportation in decentralized urban sprawl, we just need ones that don't produce a thick layer of smog, which we basically already have. I hope they also realize that recreational sports vehicles don't contribute to the problem by any appreciable amount so we can keep our fun cars for decades to come.

That fellow with the electric car needs nurburgring times. It's a long narrow car designed for top speed, not a supercar by any means more than a rocket car tested on the salt flats is. Build me an alternative fuel vehicle that weighs less than 3000 pounds and can lap the ring in under 8 minutes and we'll talk. I see interesting fuel commuter cars in the future, but it will be a long time before there is a workable sports car in my opinion.

Is there some kind of secret code among designers of electric cars that forces them to an ugly design?

Electric cars are always ugly. Why?

[randywebb]

A lot of the Hg problem from coal plants is because they don't want to install expensive scrubbers. You can also burn natural gas to make electricity. Eventually, we will use solar panels on a large scale. You can also use these PV panels to split water and generate H gas. That ill run a fuel cell in a car. beside the basic expense there is also the problem of a distribution system for all this. But it is doable - just a question of how long.

Even so, there will be problems cars - noise, congestion, accidents, etc. will not go away. And there is some pollution from tire rubber, drippings from gear lube etc. Just recently, I asked EPA to send info on this but they said they didn't have any.

Even if you don't create something perfect, it is still a good idea to make a big improvement. Electric cars can do that, whether they run on fuel cells or batteries. It is also possible to design a killer electric sports car -- the wt. of the power plant can be put low in the vehicle, distributed front to rear, and elec. motors make great torque.

[erobinson]

I agree with the hummer/explorer mentality being a bad thing.

There are so many times that I wish America commuters would go for smaller cars. I particularly like small more elemental forms of transportation.

This has all been said before, but if you commute as one person, five days a week and never or rarely have anyone else ride with you, wouldnt a very lightweight small one or two seat car (maybe even a tandem seater) with a sporty engine (a hybrid even, the torque of an electric motor can really make up for a smalle displacement ICE) that gets good mileage make sense? Heck, wouldnt it be cool to drive a formula style car with slideback canopy or something? Or prewar European sports car type vehicles, some of the neatest looking little cars were built then. And just think, a small OHC engine with a simple injection system and cats on it would be fairly low emissions, be fun to drive etc etc.

The downside is, when i go to cities I am absolutely frightened by the SUVs and trucks. I would hate to be on the receiving end of those things in my midsized coupe let alone a small lightweight commuter...

[304065]

In 20 years, you are going to plug your CAR into your HOUSE when you get home, not the other way around.

The power required to accelerate a vehicle is more than adequate to handle your peak energy usage when you are at home, and recharge storage batteries used during the day.

[randywebb]

Timely post .... I just saw a Cayenne at the neighborhood organic market.... not a spec of dust on it. Coiffed blonde driving with cell phone, on her way to matronhood.....