Wish I had - Glad I hadn't

[Superman]

I often lament not owning a 911 sooner. Of course, there was a time, a fairly long time, when I probably could not afford to operate one. So, I drove other cars. And I like working on cars, so I've learned my way around several kinds of cars. Once you do a procedure, it gets much easier the next time.

But 911's are a mechanic's dream. They are BY FAR AND AWAY easier to work on than other cars. Since I am new to these procedures, it takes me a while to learn the procedures with this car. So, I often wish I had been working on 911s for a couple of decades now...because with a bit of experience, they are a total SNAP to work on. Wish I was "there" in terms of the zen of 911 maintenance.

But I had a fun thought last night working on my ebrake system. Having worked on other cars before, I can contrast them with the 911. I can appreciate this car. When working on a system, I know how frustrating those same systems are on other cars. So, I see and understand the beauty and elegance of this car perhaps much more than I would if the 911 was my only maintenance experience.

So now, I'm kinda glad I am new to this game. Kinda.

And just to illustrate, I needed to access my ebrake shoes on both sides. I zipped the lugnuts off, removed the wheel. Popped the clip holding the brake line to the control arm, and loosened the two bolts holding the calipers in place. Slid the caliper back and it rested on top of the control arm. No removing the pads, no disconnecting the brake line, no bleeding (brakes or hands). Two small screws later I am inspecting the brake shoes. I took my time inspecting. Ate something, had a couple of cigarettes. Put everything back together in substantially less than an hour. Some of you guys might not know how impossible this story would be with another car.

Oh, and JW's advice to me was spot on. Rebuilding rear calipers should be done with out disconnecting any brake lines. The caliper rests on the control arm for easy access and good support. Hydraulics works MUCH better than air for removing pistons. That's a one-hour job too, start to finish.

[IceBlueSC]

For me it's more of a life and death situation.

I have always wanted and appreciated the looks and engineering of Porsche automobiles, but if I had one when I was "young, dumb and fulla..." I would probably be dead by now.

Looking back, I was a very reckless driver in my youth. I'm glad that I had crap cars to work that out of my system, and now I appreciate the 911 for what it is: a great street and track car all rolled up into timeless styling and grace.

Cheers!

[kqw]

Just to add to the anxiety.....Just imagine if you did not have access to this BBS when something needed to be fixed.

A lot of folks have spent mucho $$$$$ on issues that could have been easily done by themselves.

[gsxrken]

I think you're just extolling the virtues of a less complex car compared to the rolling space shuttles of today. 911s are very tightly packaged, require more specialized tools/sizes than most cars, the parts are outrageously priced, the engine comes out (albeit fairly easily) for a number of otherwise simple fixes, etc.
Sup, I think you're just crowing about your car, dude. Love is blind

[randywebb]

"They are BY FAR AND AWAY easier to work on than other cars."

- I disagree also. They are very hard to access for most jobs. Compare to a BMW of similar vintage. Or an Alfa if you don't like the sedan comparison. Don't confuse reliability with access and ease of repair.

911s ae cheap exotics - that's great, but access was not part of the package.

[Superman]

Dammit. I typed a long response and now it's gone. ****.

In working on other cars, many many many times you will think "If only the engineers had to work on these things, this sort of **** would not happen." Well, not only were Porsche engineers required to work on the cars, the work area was often called a "pit" alongside a race track and the engineers had seconds, not hours, to perform the operation.

Dash gauge removal: five seconds. No tools

Interior upholstery panel removal: rear pieces, one minute per. Door panels, maybe five minutes. Screwdriver

fuel level sender removal: three minutes. One small wrench

distributor rotor removal: fifteen seconds. No tools.

I'm sticking by my conclusion. When you've worked on other cars before, these cars will make you marvel.

Oh, and I agree with your observation that newer cars are much more compex. But my comparison is with older cars. Besides the ex-wife's '92 Pathfinder, the latest model car I have ever owned was an '84 Rabbit. This car (911) beats them soundly on ease of maintenance. Doesn't just beat them. Crushes them.

[Superman]

I completely disagree. A reasonably skilled mechanic can have the 911 engine and tranny on the floor in a half-hour. Certainly in less than one hour. Another example. Also, someone mentioned that there might be operations that require engine removal where other cars do not. You'll have to name one.

Starter removal: Perhaps ten minutes.

I'd like to hear from some other people. Anybody else think these cars are harder than most to work on?

[dd74]

I wouldn't know if the 911 is easy or difficult to work on. As some of you are a few years older than me, I feel I'm too old to get underneath a chassis or bend over an engine bay. I'm more apt at getting bent over by a shop, but alas, to each their own.

Even if I did feel like working on my car, I have to say I wouldn't trust myself with a 911. Yes, I've worked on cars - Mustangs, Hondas, brands of trucks, and my once-beloved and dearly departed Ford Fiesta rally car. I rebuilt the FI on a 280-Z and even had some hands0on with a honkering Mercedes 6.3 V8. But the 911, no way! Particularly after Tyson Schmidt showed me what the cars are capable of on a track.

In short, mine, for me, is scary fast and handles just as frightingly. In fact, I think all 911s can be scary fast at some point. Considering the fact that these machines operate at such an intensity both in speed and handling, I could never entrust myself to reach a level of mechanical exactitude these cars require. They are, after all, (somewhat) domesticated racing cars - and I think we all know the level of expertise racing cars demand mechanically.

I applaud FYI efforts, as I would of my own on my own car. But it's been instilled in me that 911s demand more than just a ham-fisted wrencher - and at that, instilled not by mechanics wanting to make a buck - but by real-world experience that concerns just what these cars are capable of.

[concentric]

Originally posted by dd74
I wouldn't know if the 911 is easy or difficult to work on. As some of you are a few years older than me, I feel I'm too old to get underneath a chassis or bend over an engine bay. I'm more apt at getting bent over by a shop, but alas, to each their own.

Ditto... I'll do some stuff on the car, but I know where my limits are, both time, money, and expertise-wise.

To paraphrase: Render therefore unto Tyson the things which are Tyson’s, and unto Jason the things that are Jason’s.

As I side note, I find air-cooled VWs are easier to work on than P-cars, but other than that, they don't have much of a rival in the ease of work dept. in my experience.

[Walko]

Having owned rear engined air cooled cars from when I first learn't to drive I must say that I always thought the other makes of cars didn't make sense.

I would love for my porsche to be like my first Beetle in that you can drop the motor out in five minutes clutch done in ten minutes and motor back in all in under an hour.

Having said that I must admit my father was trained by VW germany in the early fifties so that he could train other Mechanics in Australia. So I guess I was bought up with german enginnering.

Porsche in terms of simplicity and speed of doing maintenance are probably the best I have ever worked on.

My 2 cents worth.

Michael

[ubiquity0]

Originally posted by Superman
I completely disagree. A reasonably skilled mechanic can have the 911 engine and tranny on the floor in a half-hour. Certainly in less than one hour. Another example. Also, someone mentioned that there might be operations that require engine removal where other cars do not. You'll have to name one.

Clutch replacement?
Actually I have no idea in what percentage of other cars it is possible to replace the clutch w/ out removing the engine, but I know there are some as I remember some surprized looks when I told others I was pulling the engine to replace my clutch.

Cracked airbox on a late SC (I know this one from personal experience- that time I didn't even dare tell anybody what was involved)

Can a good mechanic really remove a 911 engine/tranny that quickly from go to whoa? I am really slow but something like the CV bolts would take me 1/2 hour to an hour to remove, due to the care needed not to strip out the bolts.


these examples are really due to the compact dimensions of the chassis however & relatively large engine bulk. You can't fault the engineering.

[mede8er]

I have to say as a young engineering student I was enamored with all of Porsche's cars....still am today though I find fuel injection a real challenge........

[Walko]

Motor removal using only hand tools and ratchets should take any mechanic worth his salt less than one hour.

having said that nect time a mechanic has to remove your motor and G/box ask them how much it will cost to remove the motor. if they quote the usual 8 hours tell them you will bring the motor in on a trailer. It can save you a heap.

The local porsche dealer quoted me 6 houirs out and six hours back in. I told them that I would do it in their workshop and that for every hour under thier time thye would pay me my hourly rate. they didn't like that idea so they agreed that they would only charge me one and a half hours for removal and teh same for installation.

I love it when the dealers give discounts.

Michael