Bizzare 911 vs Miata thread on the miata board

[masraum]

There are some interesting views in this thread. Some misguided folks I do believe.

miata vs 911

[masraum]

I suppose I should clarify. I've seen the whole miata vs 911 or boxster thing come up several times before on the miata board, and I've never seen so many people say that their miatas were faster or handled better than porsches. Usually they say the miatas handle great, and the porsches handle sublimely, and are much faster to boot.

Just thought it was an interesting thread. I wonder where these people are racing that they have stock 130hp miatas that are passing 911's?

They are probably in the advanced run group passing noobs in the green group that are trundling along in one gear learning the line or something.

[911S Targa]

WOW., Im speechless.

[RickM]

Lots of second-hand / made-up info on that thread....

"I once read an article about used Ferraris in R&T, there was a guy in there that sold Ferraris and he said that suprisingly, insurance on Ferraris was much lower than Porsche 911's...he had sold clients that traded in 911's and had their insurance go down by quite a bit.

I think a big part of this might be theft, as there might be more of a market for used 911 parts.

The other thing is if you steal a 911, it's somewhat easy to make a getaway, whereas if you steal a Ferrari, everybody is looking at you as you go down the street.

Just a thought, you might want to price insurance for a 911 sometime, it might be quite frightening."


OR

"Sure, in '78 it was a tremendous car, just like today the 997 is outstanding. But to get down near the price even of a brand new turbo Miata (21k) you have to get a 911 that is 20 years old. Even if you found one with only 10000 miles on it, in perfect shape, it's 20 years old. We've come a loooooong way. Computers are why. They hardly existed on an SC or 3.2 Carrera. The engine management on a 930 was so primitive it's a wonder they ran like they did. It's so primitive that to this day there's no really good way to make usable, tractable power with the things, short of ripping out the DME and wiring harness and transplanting a modern one."

Here's an interesting one:

...."I have not only driven 3.2 Carreras a good bit on the track, I've driven against them in a well-prepared turbo Miata making just over 200hp at the crank, and let me tell you, your statements are simply unfounded hyperbole based on magazine articles. The Miata could outpull the 911s and 930s on the track from 30mph to 125 (Turn 7 to Turn 10A, Road Atlanta), and increase its lead even more in the twisty sections of the track (3-6). And lest you think that my reasoning only applies to blown Miatas, I've driven the same Miata with only I/H/E and suspension mods (around 140hp crank) and had the same results in the twisties, though I was outrun by the 911s on the back straight, of course. "

[cantdrv55]

Steve, the only thing I'd have to agree with is that a Miata would make a better daily driver than my SC. Why? The Miata has a smooth as butter shifter, wonderful HVAC, would do fine with regular unleaded, I wouldn't mind parking it in the tighest spot and they are super cheap to buy and maintain. But the Miata is no 911. You're right, there's no substitute.

[juanbenae]

i see alot of chicks, and guys with rainbow stickers in miatas, not that there is anything wrong with that.


steve, post a link to this thread there, and see how things proceed.....

[Jdub]

It's all flattery as far as I'm concerned. The best is always in the crosshairs.

That said, I do love the Miata. At first, when they came out, I thought "So they copied a Lotus Elan and made it civil." The prices were absurd as well, since those dealerships that could find them jacked the price up (was it?) around 20K. Being a Brit car fan, I stuck with my '69 MBG and cursed the heater blower every time I needed it.

But now, and especially with the restyle, I have a fond place in my heart for the Miata. I think it is a pretty cool car, handles very nicely, and I do like the M model and the mallard green/tan interior appearance. They are well laid out, have a great fan base, and technical knowledge is everywhere. They are a cult car that has legs, and I know that someday I will own one (rather than help my neighbor with her blue M model).

That said (Gawd you knew this was coming...) the 911 is just heaven. Quirky, a bit stubborn, and uncompromising. But ohmygosh does it handle and move nicely.

Now if we REALLY want to have a conversation let's all talk about why Jetta drivers are such idiots. And why do pickup drivers try to handle their overweight/topheavy iron like sports cars?

John

[IROC]

Definitely some mis-guided folks there, but overall it seemed most people realized that Miatas and 911s aren't really in the same league.

Someone told me once that Miatas in the spec Miata series are only turning lap times in the 1:55 range at Road Atlanta. If that's the case, then no 911 owner needs to be concerned about getting beaten by a Miata there....even 25 year-old 911s can run faster than that...

Mike

[dhoward]

Bought my wife a '99 last year. Nice, fun car. Really well balanced. When I got it home I put it up on stands to get a good look. Hmmm... Bilstiens, LSD...
Got out the secret decoder ring and found lots of factory upgrades like the suspension and LSD. Pretty nice ready-to-race car for not a lot of money.
That said, I wouldn't trade the 911 for one. Even my well-worn 2.0 with webers out pulls it, and I know the miata's running well. It's just a different car...

[masraum]

Ask and ye shall receive. The miata folks (generally great people that are as serious and knowledgeable about performance sports cars/driving as many of us are) are now aware of this thread.

[911teo]

I actually saw some "cup" Miatas in action... They had stock engine but better susp, brakes, interior stripped down.... They were race prepped, yes, but probably putting out 130-150hps... And they were overtaking 911s.
I saw them at CMP,in the test and tune group.. so no grampas taking it easy in their 911s.
I was impressed. I talked to the Miata team people and they told me it's a fun cathegory to be in. A season costs around $50k and their lap times was comparable with some slow Gs, Hs Porsches...
Granted a different track where HP is more important would yield different results... But still... don't underestimate them.

[Dantilla]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I do like Miatas. And I like car buffs, no matter what badge is on their hood. Yeah, there are some pretty biased guys over there, but also plenty of Porsche praise.

Are any of us biased?

Nothing will put a smile on my face as fast as a Miata. There is something very entertaining about driving an underpowered car quickly. If the windshield header wasn't right in front of my eyes, I'd probably own one. In addition to the P-cars. Not as a replacement.

As far as Spec Miata race cars, their track performance is similar to my ITS prepped 944, that is to say, less than stellar. But gobs of fun.

Like my 944, it's about the cheapest way to have serious racing competition.

[anthony]

I only read half of that thread but it seemed mostly balanced. It's true that when it comes to "bang for the buck" and "easy to drive fast" the Miata wins over the 911. My friend has a Miata and it's a blast to drive but not as fun as a 914.

The 914-911 comparison is similar. The 914 is much easier to drive fast down a twisty mountain road than the 911. The 911 makes a much better track car and IMO a better overall road car because of the extra power and creature comforts. They both have their charms.

[ubiquity0]

The 1.6 Miatas can be had super-cheap these days. Would be a perfect fun twisty-road car if you do some suspension upgrades (the stock Miatas I have driven were fun but crying out for a stiffer ride).

For anyone comparing a newer $20,000 Miata with a $20,000 Carrera the ownership costs are not as skewed as people believe- in 5 years the Miata will have lost $10,000 in depreciation, while the 911 will have held its value. That $2000 per year would cover the running costs of most Carreras.

[ted]

If I was going to have a non Porsche sports car the Miata would be low on the list.
The Honda S2000 would be above the Miata in my styling, performance book. The Miata though a great spec racer does suffer from the chick car rep afaik.

[Wil Ferch]

Oddly enough...although irrelevant..is if you look at the packaging specs of the two cars.

Although Porsche's are uttered in the same breath as Ferrari, Corvette, BMW M3's and such....in physical dimensions ( wheelbase, track, overall length, width) ...the early/mid 911's and the Miata are *very* nearly identical. Odd, huh ?

Wil

[cstreit]

WHat gets me is the guys claiming that a miata on track is gonna be faster than a 911.

Clearly didn't know how to drive a 911 fast, which is not suprising, it does take some learning. However I've turned significantly faster laps in stock 911's than prepped Miata's at local tracks....

So I'm not buying it. The 911 has decent suspension, more HP, similar weight and more brakes, yet the Miata is faster?

I'll put my 911 up for pinks any day. (Of course if there's is fully prepped, I get to drive the racecar.)

[Slump]

Originally posted by cstreit
WHat gets me is the guys claiming that a miata on track is gonna be faster than a 911.

I think you're referring to me. Not all that hard to understand, really. Yes, I only had a dozen hours or so of track experience in the 911, and it wasn't my car - but I only have a couple dozen hours of track time in the Miata, so...

But, the miata has 180 hp to the wheels (about 205-210 crank), weighs 2400lbs with me in it, and the track was pretty small - no 1 mile straights or anything like that - around 1 min lap times.

[Porsche virgin]

OK, I own both.

The Miata is the greatest thing on the road to drive like you stole it. I beat my R package (Bilsteins, LSD, manual everything) to death on public roads, and I'm barely above the speed limit because it is so slow. That said, I rarely, if ever, slow down for turns. In fact, I usually speed up. Also, it is nearly indestructible.

The 911 is a true sporting machine. It is temperamental and will eat novice drivers for breakfast. It can be expensive to buy and maintain. That said, no vehicle will ever elicit more emotional response from me. I open my garage just to look at my car. I turn it on just to hear that engine. The Miata was out in the snow all last winter. Who cares? It's a Miata. If it breaks, I'll buy another one. The P-car, she is special.

As far as speed, handling, and braking goes, this is a useless argument. A fast driver in a Yugo will beat a bad driver in a 959.

[Matt Alley]

Originally posted by RickM
Lots of second-hand / made-up info on that thread....

Here's an interesting one:

...."I have not only driven 3.2 Carreras a good bit on the track, I've driven against them in a well-prepared turbo Miata making just over 200hp at the crank, and let me tell you, your statements are simply unfounded hyperbole based on magazine articles. The Miata could outpull the 911s and 930s on the track from 30mph to 125 (Turn 7 to Turn 10A, Road Atlanta), and increase its lead even more in the twisty sections of the track (3-6). And lest you think that my reasoning only applies to blown Miatas, I've driven the same Miata with only I/H/E and suspension mods (around 140hp crank) and had the same results in the twisties, though I was outrun by the 911s on the back straight, of course. "

Wow, I'm honored to be featured on the Pelikan board. I love fountain pens!

I have to defend my statements as neither made-up nor second hand. If you read earlier posts in the thread by me you know I'm a major Porsche-faithful, but I'm not blind either. The original intent of the poster was to discover whether an SC/3.2 would make a better daily driver than a late model Miata. We all have our opinions on that, but several of you shared mine that the Miata is the handsdown winner in this category, due to warranty, HVAC, ride, reliability, etc. The person who asked the question didn't really sound like someone who would be happy with the tradeoffs a mid-years 911 require for everyday use. That said, my track comments are still true. My turbo Miata (200rwhp) with coilovers and race rubber was faster repeatedly around Road Atlanta than any 911 I ever encountered, up to and including a Blue Turquoise 97 C4 that is still the prettiest Porsche I've ever seen. I was able to barely keep up with a modified '94 Guards Red 3.6 Turbo on the one occasion I ran with him for about 10 laps till I ran off at 3 due to over driving (and the fact that Turn 3 has always been my nemesis!) His was the better car, but I wanted it more I guess. But his car was also worlds apart from a stock 3.2, the subject of all this "my car's faster than yours" jousting. I know it's hard to swallow, as nice as Carreras are, but for the price of a stock 3.2 rebuild one can easily buy a 1.8 Miata, turbo it, and create an objectively faster track car than the Carrera. Certainly not everybody's cup of tea, but far from ludicrous. It's being done all the time. Flyin' Miata

Hey, how come none of you mentioned my Louise Piech/Ernst Furhmann comment? I'm wounded!!!

Cheers, Matt