Debate This!

TXScott · 12-19-2004, 08:34 AM

As I'll be out of state w/ limited BBS access, and as much as I love to see everyone go back and forth w/ these things.....

In "everyones own opinion", of course

Did Porsche race cars so they could Sell them?
.....OR
Did Porsche sell cars so they could Race them????

HMMMMM?

aways · 12-19-2004, 08:38 AM

Both. They don't have to be mutually exclusive...

TXScott · 12-19-2004, 08:41 AM

I know that, you know that.....But I want to hear from the Pelican Left wings, and right wings!
Which way does it lean?
S

pwd72s · 12-19-2004, 08:46 AM

In the early years of the 911, they raced to sell. Hard to believe now, but in the mid 60's, the USA Porsche buyers were reluctant to let go of their 356's for a 911. I have a copy of a letter written by the then manager of Porsche Cars Northwest, describing a meeting where the decision was made to enter SCCA racing with a small fleet of cars in an attempt to boost 911 sales.

autobonrun · autobonrun's Garage

These phrases have often been used in the Porsche versus Ferrari debate.

Many say that Porsche raced cars so they could sell them and Ferrari sold cars so they could race them. This may have been true in the 50's. Your question equates to asking what is the primary goal of the company. Over the years, Porsche's goal has obviously changed. However, to find the answer as it pertains to the present, always follow the money. In order to remain a viable entity, a company must make money. It doesn't matter if they enjoy racing or not. Porsche makes most of its money from engineering and car sales. Ferrari just happens to make most of its money racing and selling race support products. So at least at this point in time, Porsche's primary end goal is selling cars while Ferrari's primary end goal is racing cars. Truth is that racing and car sales are inter-related. Many high tech improvements come out of racing.

Just my opinion.

Early_S_Man · 12-19-2004, 09:45 AM

None of the above ...

They raced because it was in the family blood ...

They continued to race because it was an valid and useful extension to their engineering department and process ...

Beethoven · 12-19-2004, 10:00 AM

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but initially Porsche built cars and engines to power Volks-cars and military vehicles of all kinds, including tanks. The longevity of the engines has a lot to do with that aspect, I suppose. Racing came later.

randywebb · 12-19-2004, 10:21 AM

Enzo himself said "that Porsche raced cars so they could sell them and Ferrari sold cars so they could race them."

Of course, he also said that the horse should pull the cart, not push it -- this in relation to engine placement. Despite his fine qualities, he was no engineer.

Porshe, OTOH, was always an engineering firm and was run by an engineer. Too bad that it is now run by Dr. Wienie King.

autobonrun · autobonrun's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by randywebb
Enzo himself said "that Porsche raced cars so they could sell them and Ferrari sold cars so they could race them."

Of course, he also said that the horse should pull the cart, not push it -- this in relation to engine placement. Despite his fine qualities, he was no engineer.

Porshe, OTOH, was always an engineering firm and was run by an engineer. Too bad that it is now run by Dr. Wienie King.

I agree with you.

It's obvious that Enzo Ferrari is the orginator of the statement on racing versus sales. Although he was no engineer, he was definitely a business man and understood what drove his and his competitors business. I think Enzo's statment was, as David Hobbs would say, "spot on". Not withstanding his ill conceived opinion on engine placement. Besides, the view and the smell is better if the horse pushes rather than pulls.

dean · 12-19-2004, 01:13 PM

I though I saw a program that said that Hilter strongly encoraged Porsche to make the Volks and military stuff. I am not sure Porsche wanted to.

Dean

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Autobonrun and RandyWebb kind of nailed it for me..........ditto.

Install425 · 12-19-2004, 02:21 PM

They where built for us to have FUN.

bigrubberjeep · 12-19-2004, 05:24 PM

Racing and winning bring credibility - Credibility brings sales.

geof33 · 12-19-2004, 05:36 PM

The reality is Porsche was military first. Hitler wanted to get into auto racing (Germany) and hired/comissioned the first auto union cars... He wanted his best vehicular engineers on the job... Enter Dr. Porsche. The racing was part of the war effort in terms of money from what I gather, and the company went into the making of the first VW... Of course the racing was also going on as well as significant military build up... The Tiger tank was equipped with a Porsche designed/manufactured turret...

Well, son Ferry wanted to move the family business into a more sports car oriented realm, enter the Gmund Porsche 356 #1. Racing then became the "computer simulation" of the time. The track was the test field for ideas... Then those ideas were made to be functional in the private world... It's always been like this, constant trickle down from the racing into the street cars, most of which were really close to the race cars...

Until now, where Porsche is looking at market share first, racing second. The cars Porsche is putting out for racing are great cars, but they have lost the factory Porsche sponser cars... Many reasons for this, one of the biggest being all of the rules changes the FIA made when the evo98 was dominating the GT class... Basically Porsche was fed up with the adage "if you can't beat a Porsche... Change the rules"...