Momentary lean situation due to excessive oxygen. Also happens if your fuel pressure drops - instant lean. Big mess afterwards.

rjp

Yah I thought I’d catch some slack with the Chevy Sprint example ;) but it was the most plentiful used and abused turbo car that I could think off from the early 90’s hahaha

I’ll admit it…my start was with Honda’s but well before “the fast & the furious” came out, when it was next to impossible to get any performance parts for those little guys. Hey we all started wrenching somewhere.

Okay so a fuel line air bubble. Yep that makes sense. You can get those 5 PSI switches that will only keep the circuit closed if it detects 5 PSI. This (you would think) should prevent this problem.

I was quoting the kid verbatim. Point is, he has all the good requirements. And being kids, they're prone to knowing it all. Not like was really listening though, I was being held captive during a recent lowrider show (I like all kinds of cars - except tuner Rice)

They are-

plentiful and as a direct result of that-

cheap. Maybe not $200 for a long block from a store cheap but the kids probably have 'em in their parents garages.. We're talking about 10 year old Hondas here. They're everywhere. It's all who you know in the used parts game..

rjp

Hey Randy…the link to your 81 coup is no longer good…

It’s been awhile but wasn’t your car the slammed orange 911? (if so from what I remember, nice looking car bud) Seems to ring a bell but then again I think we have all seen so many 911’s on here

Yep, mine looks Orange in the pic, it's Guards Red as seen thru the lens of a Fuji Digital...

rjp

Porsche is a whole balanced package, where acceleration, braking , handling and style all come together in one great vehicle. If a person wants to concentrate their P-car efforts on straight line racing I say go get-em!! I would rather they do it on the race track though.

If you have'nt driven a stock late model twin-turbo, all wheel drive Porsche, man you'd think that is exactly what those German's were thinking. Like 4.3 sec 0-60. Now that is a muscle car!!

I'm a drag race guy and take huge offense at being lumped-in with mullet-hair, empty headed red necks. I say to those 'big-thinkers' f--k off. I've raced professionally in both cars and on motorcycles and I love it! At least I have somewhat of an open mind to 'other' forms of racing. I find in every case of that 'type' of attitude that the closest form of racing they have done professionally is the time trials from the couch to the frig at commercial time. By the way, Rock-on Garth!!

Thanks Asphaltgambler for backing me up.How do the wine and cheese guys explian the RUF?I dont street race, but like to flex some muscle once and while.P.S. clean cut guy, NO MULLET!

Nitrous plumbed in :D http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1104093264.jpg




I hear yah Tommy, your having fun cruising through the mountains whipping around the corners, but it would be nice for a little extra power to pass that new Vet in front of you on the next straight stretch…

FROSTIE, I like the way you think. That looks BUTTER!

Hey I am with you but it be impossible to try to explain anything to my fellow friends, so why even try.........

Frostie.......thanks for educated replies. I think that turbos are okay for some people because the factory does it. and Porsche engines don't cost 6 times more than a chevy engine....maybe 2-3 times though.
Here is a small block chart that is a low dollar low tech smog legal engine that you could probably build for about 4k.....love that torque at 2600rpm
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1104097935.jpg

Adding a 50-75 hp is not a big deal for engines that have forged everything just do it right as frostie outlines and when you are not spraying it runs like stock.

here is a tall deck 450cubic inch small block that really rocks and idles like a stocker
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0312_454/
here is the chart
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1104098510.jpg

just don't get too crazy.

I think you fellas are missing the point(s) made by the "cheese and wine" camp.
There is a distinct difference in the basic design and function of a 911 vs say a Camero or Mustang. The 911 transaxle and suspension geometry are simply not designed for drag racing. Even Juan knows it is financial foolishness to use the 911 in that application.
As for nitrous oxide, even some drag racers frown on its use. "Poor mans supercharger" is what they called it back in the day. Which leads to another annoying fact, the 911 is a high end sports car. It is typically frowned upon to do low buck or low tech mods to high dollar cars. Not my rule, just the way it is. Where do you think the term "ricer" came from?

If you want a fast car build a fast car. Putting the intake into an artificial atmosphere is no different than a diver strapping on SCUBA gear. He can pretend he's a big fish - until the air runs out.

A drive train that is already under load is less likely to be damaged then a sudden burst of power in a drive train that has sum ‘slack’. What I mean is as your pulling out to pass that damn pesky Corvette you use a little juice should have minimal drive train stress.

I think most of us are past the stage of revving her to red line at the stoplight and popping the clutch

I approach this topic with no prejudices. “Ricer” “cheating” “frowned upon” are not thinks that sway my judgment. Effectiveness, cost, safety, reliability are the only decisive factors for me.

Maybe Michael Moores next documentary will be "NOS 911"
:)

now you know that I am just messing around but a small shot would not hurt anymore than a turbo at high boost. the components will be stress more with nos then the turbo though on the initial hit at lower rpm because it comes on with a bang all at once.

I think that you are better off with out it because we all get greedy and soon a small shot is not enough.

good luck

thanks for educated replies,

Great now we can continue, Maybe I miss the part were the fellow wants to 'Drag Race' his 911 if I did is my bad if not, our 911s will take all this hp and then some more.

And heres some inf, not from me but from a NOS Guru and a system that will run circles around any other system.


They are NOT MY OPINIONS.

Point 1),
What ALL novices and many "self proclaimed experts" don't "know" or "realise" is that MOST engine wear occurs on "start up" (as any oil company will tell you), because there is NO OIL between the moving parts.

Point 2)
The second aspect of wear (for some engine components), is engine speed (rpm).
Obviously if an engine was run at 1,000rpm for a given length of time it would have 1/10th of the wear that an engine ran at 10,000rpm would have.
Most conventional tuning INCREASES the rpm at which peak power is achieved so if you use that power you will increase engine wear.

Point 3)
Nitrous is the ONLY tuning product that creates such a MASSIVE increase in "torque" and the maximum "torque" is generated at LOW to MID rpm.
Consequently if you wanted to extend engine life (REDUCE WEAR), you could do this and increase performance (at the same time), by using a Nitrous system and changing gear
at a lower rpm than without gas.
Used this way NITROUS use will result in REDUCED ENGINE WEAR.

Point 4)
The components responsible for MOST WEAR in an engine are the camshaft and followers, because they are made from the hardest materials in the engine and are subjected to the highest frictional loads / forces.
They wear at a high rate (frequently being the first major parts to need replacing).
The VERY hard particles that are produced by the wearing of these components get pumped around the engine causing accelerated wear in parts like the bottom end bearings, pistons etc.
The best way to reduce camshaft wear is to run the engine at higher rpm because the cam lobes and followers are not in contact for as long as when running at low rpm.
The faster you accelerate the engine to high rpm the shorter the time that the followers are in contact with the cam lobes.
Guess what, Nitrous accelerates (reduces) the rpm rise time and consequently reduces cam & follower wear.

Point 5)
The final BUT MOST IMPORTANT point that 99.9% of people seem to forget or overlook, is that Nitrous is ONLY used for a few SECONDS at a time. So even if ALL the
above was RUBBISH, this very short use period would have such a microscopic effect on wear that it would NOT be worth considering (which is why I don't make a big thing about Nitrous actually REDUCING engine wear).
I drive my car to work and back every day which takes about 1 hour. Lets assume (to make things simple for the likes of the odd plant life that occasionally visits our board), that wear is consistent under all
conditions (even though it's NOT). I'll probably use the Nitrous system 5 or 6 times
for about 3 to 5 seconds at a time (maximum use 30 seconds).
So in a journey that lasts 3,600 seconds the gas is used for just 30 seconds that equates to less than 1%.
The more you use your car the smaller the percentage of time the Nitrous is used.
Even if Nitrous increases wear (WHICH IT DOES NOT), a maximum of 1% does not seem worth mentioning to me!

Some more............


Q1) The most common question we are asked is "Will nitrous oxide DESTROY my engine ?"

Al) My short answer is, would I still be in business if I were RESPONSIBLE for DESTROYING ALL or ANY of my customer’s engines ? Obviously NOT, and that is why for over 10 years we have experimented with N20 injection on many types of engines and pushed them further than any customer would want, to ensure that this remains true. The results are that despite being subjected to extended periods of VERY high power increases all but or 2 survived without problems of any kind. My conclusion is that as long as OUR nitrous system is fitted and used correctly, to an engine in good condition without any weaknesses in the original design, then there is no reason to worry about premature engine wear or failure.

Q2) How long does a cylinder of nitrous oxide last ?

A2) Just like your petrol tank it is not long enough between refills, especially when you first fit the kit and play with it as you would a new toy. However once you get past this playful stage you begin to realise what a useful boost nitrous is, and only use it when necessary, then the bottle seems to last forever before needing a fill. It is impossible to put a time to how long a bottle will lasts, as we offer three different sizes of cylinder, the biggest lasting five times as long as the smallest. Besides the size of the nitrous bottle, the size of the nitrous jet (which determines the amount of power increase, and consequently the rate of nitrous usage) can he changed from as little as 5 bhp to as much as 100 bhp, obviously the bigger jet uses more nitrous more rapidly, to be exact 20 times more rapidly. With all this in mind, a big bottle with a small jet will last the longest (approx. 60 mins of continuous use), whilst a small bottle with the biggest jet will last the shortest time (approx. 30 secs of continuous use). To add extra confusion to the calculations, if you fit a xx DIGITAL progressive nitrous delivery system, you the user can alter the power and consequently the consumption of the nitrous, however the good news is that a xx makes the nitrous last approx. twice as long as a normal nitrous system. In real life some customers use a bottle a day, some use a bottle a week and some take more than 2 weeks to empty the bottle, it is all down to you, as you control how often you hit the button. It is not like a propane conversion where you use the gas all the time, it is only a BOOSTER to you normal engine power and consequently you can run the car as normal if you don't want to use the gas too quickly, or when the bottle is empty.)


A4) "xxx" systems come complete with full fitting instructions and we offer the most comprehensive after sales service, however if you want the very best from your system then it would be wise to have either ourselves or our agents fit and fine tune the system for you, or at least carry out final checks before you use your system. Charges for our fitting service vary for each vehicle, but is usually a minimum of £150, but can run to £300 for the basic kit ONLY which includes DYNO or COMPUTER testing of your vehicle.


Q6) Is the use of nitrous oxide "road legal" ?

A6) There is no law that prohibits the use of N20 injection on road vehicles. My own cars are used on the road, and the local police are aware of my use of nitrous systems, and they confirm that they know of no law that I could be breaking. However you may need to inform your insurance company, depending on the type and wording of the policy. The same applies to ALL types of tuning, these should also be reported to your insurers.

Q7) How is the power increase determined ?

A7) The power rating is calculated from the flow rate of nitrous oxide liquid through the nitrous jet, and is therefore only theoretical. The actual power increase achieved by a particular engine depends on: i) the richness of the fuel to Nitrous ratio, eg. Too rich, reduces the power output, ii) the engines particular characteristics, so different engines will produce different power increases from a specific amount of nitrous oxide (eg. i), a V6 Ford had 25 bhp injected but measured 70 bhp extra at the crank, (eg. ii), a Shogun V6 had 25 bhp injected, but only measured a 16 bhp increase at the wheels).

Q8) How much power increase cam I achieve ?

A8) xxx systems have achieved as much as 500% power increases on some engines, without engine failure. This figure may not be attainable on all engines, but it does give you some idea of the potential of our systems. All “HIGHPOWER" systems are sent out with an initial jetting of 25 BHP in order to reduce gas wastage when carrying out initial testing, and to avoid any engine problems that maybe caused by incorrect installation. Once you have con-firmed that the system is functioning correctly on your vehicle, you can request lager jets (£10/pr I increase) which are available in up to 25 BHP increments, so you can look forward to more & more POWER from HIGHPOWER systems.

Q9) Do I need to fit any improved parts to my engine before I buy a xxx nitrous system ?

A9) NO! (not normally), but any parts that would improve a standard engine, will also be of benefit to a nitrous burner. The previous statement holds true only up to a certain power output, with each engine having its own limits on each component. The first parts to show signs of weakness when using nitrous are usually the clutch (on motorcycles which may slip at 25bhp+), then the ignition components (on motorcycles & cars which may not be powerful enough at 25bhp+). If the power is increased above 50 bhp it is possible for a piston failure to occur, but this can be prevented by retarding the timing to allow for the quicker burn rate when using nitrous oxide. If our advice is followed this should never happen if the timing is corrected when nitrous is used. Most standard engine parts will handle more power than the driver, but if you want MAXIMUM POWER then it is best to improve the aforementioned parts first. It is not in our interests to have any engine components fail, so you can rely on xx systems to give you good advise for maximum reliability.

Q1O) Will nitrous work on turbo I supercharged, tuned or 2 stroke engines ?

A10) YES! it will, as nitrous does not know what kind of engine it is entering, and on these types of engines the power output on nitrous almost always exceeds the theoretical power input calculated on the amount of nitrous used.

Q11) Does nitrous work on Diesel I Turbo engines ?

A11) YES! and with much better results for a given power increase than a petrol engine, as a diesel does not have an ignition system like a petrol engine and consequently the power output is not reduced by a poor condition ignition system, also the timing of the ignition sequence is not as crucial on a diesel which not only helps the power output, but also reliability. With a petrol engine detonation can soon become a limiting factor to the power output, but as tar as I can tell this is not the case on a diesel as they actually run on detonation and as a consequence are built stronger which is another reliability bonus. The biggest advantage of a diesel over a petrol engine is the diesels lack of acceleration ability, but with N20 injection this shortcoming is dis_proportionately improved. Cost is another area where a diesel has an advantage over an equivalent petrol engine, as the basic N20 systems for a diesel does not need a filet control system as a petrol engine does, which reduces the cost of a similar diesel system by approx . The only limiting factor is how much fuel the engine wastes, and how much extra can be added.

Q12) How do I operate I use a nitrous system ?

A12) Since we tailor make our systems to our customers requirements we can accommodate any arrangement you require, but we suggest that an arming switch (supplied with the system) be mounted within easy reach of the driver I rider, with a throttle operated micro switch (supplied with the system) mounted in such a way that it will only operate at full throttle. With the arming twitch OFF, the micro switch operating at full throttle will not fire off the system, however when the arming twitch is ON, applying full throttle will activate the N20 system, and when the throttle is released it will switch the system OFF. This way you do not need to make any unusual actions to operate the system, and you will find it just like driving a more powerful vehicle or like driving an automatic car with kick down.


Peace


Play smart play safe and have tons of fun!:cool: ;) :D

I actually think that the opinions on this board have become kinder and more accepting to these mod's. We continue to see more "converted" racers from other marques switching over and bringing an open mind to the table. I think this is good for the Porsche community and may help to kill some of the bad stereotypes. It may help strengthen one of the good stereotypes: Porsches are great, fast and hard to compete against :)

Just a few thoughts:

Relative to those who are citing generic German engineering "traditions" and technological approaches to developing power, it was actually the Germans, specifically Focke-Wulf in 1942, who developed and pioneered the use of nitrous (not simply water/alchohol injection) in their radial aircraft engines to develop additional power. Allied pilots, began to report in 1943 that FW-190's were pulling away from them in level, low altitude flight, which initially caused considerable concern. It was determined however, that not all German aircraft were so equipped, and as new/faster variants of Alied aircraft began appearing, this became a less significant issue.

Several on this thread have discussed the expense of rebuilding engines that are damaged due to improper/excess/ill-informed, etc. application of NOS. The air racing community has been using NOS for years in Merlins, Griffons, P&W 2800's, 4360's, etc. A rebuild on a good racing middle-of-the-pack V-12 ranges between $100-$275,000+. An average radial is slightly less. The point here is that it is all relative. If some Porsche owner wants to run NOS and is comfortable with the associated costs of a rebuild/replacement, then fine. If that is a financial stretch...then don't do it. Pretty simple.

As for those who feel that they need to personally defend Porsche's tradition, engineering intent, etc....you will never win this arguement, because all of us buy these cars for different reasons. For some, they are the object of a long-held goal. For others, there is an appreciation of Porsche's racing heritage. Others (hopefully not too many on this board) see them as a "status thing". Others seem to admire, enjoy and even improve on the technology, while some see them as relatively inexpensive additions to the other high end cars that they also have in their garages. As long as someone is not ruining an irreplaceable piece of automotive history...do whatever you are comfortable with.