Buying a 74 911 2.7 targa

[Kekec944/84]

I have a Porsche 944 and I want to buy a 911 to see how those are. I had a look at one today and I just wanna ask you guys some questions because I am not very familiar to the 911.

- The car would not Idle correctly. With the choke on, the car idled at 2000 RPM, take the choke off a little and it came down to 1200. However, when I took the choke right off, after the engine was warm, the RPMs fell slowly from 800 right into stall. The car defenitly was running rich I could smell it. The guy selling the car said that the engine had a MSG coil and controller box but was still using the point distributor, he said that if I update the distributer the engine will run fine. Is that a possible problem or is that just wrong? And if its wrong can anyone speculate from those symptoms.
Also the engine would backfire, especially when it was starting from a stop. (it had no plates, so I just drove it across the driveway)

- The gear shifter also felt wierd to me. In nuetral it had no "springiness" when I moved it from left to right (it didnt return to center). Is that how 911 gear shifters are?

I am seroiusly thinking of buying the car if the engine compression is good. So what should the compression be on a healthy 2.7L? sorry I don't know any other engine details I forgot to look, it does have weber carbs though and its a 74.

And can you guys let me know of any thing I should check out that should be taken into account when buying a 911 especially concerinig the engine and trans.

The body did have some rust bubbling, what year did Porsche start making the galvanized bodies. Maybie I should be looking for one of those.

[LakeCleElum]

Don't walk, RUN.....The 2.7's produced from 74-77 had issues with head studs pulling out of the cases and other heat related problems. The galvanized bodies came a few yrs later, '77 I think. You don't mention what part of the country you are from or the asking price. Due the a poor reputation, a 74-77 2.7, running good with no rust is only worth 7 to 8 K....Rust is a deal breaker right there. W/O rust, only consider one with a full PPI to verify the condition of the engine......Good luck...

[Kekec944/84]

Is the stud problem catestrophic? Is it common? Can the problem be solved with new upgraded studs? Is it caused by user abuse? Is there anyway I can tell if this cars studs are starting to pull out? I would appretiate more info on that.
What is a PPI?

The car is from Vancouver, Canada. The odometer shows 14,000 so 140,000 or 240,000 Mi (I think Canada was still using Miles at that time).
-Rust is bubbling through the paint.
-New drilled brake rotors.
-New set of tires
-Duck tail
-Interior is perfect. The seats have electric tilt and they are well bolstered like the 80's turbo models. Are those origanal?
-Momo steering wheel
-webber carbs
-The ignition is confusing it has a MSG coil and a MSG box, quite a bit bigger than the coil, mouted above the engine, can somone tell me what that does exactly. And the stock point distributor mentioned above.
-Momo steering wheel
-rims are in perfect condition
-new clutch
Owner is asking $10,000CAD (8,116USD) I think he will take between $6,000 ($4,868USD) and $7,000 (5,679.44USD).

Main thing is body needs work, and I don't want to get into the expensive world of Porsche engine rebuilding. Anything outside the engine I can tackle. Would a compession test be a good indication of the condition of the engine or are there other things I should be looking at to determine engine condition.

Also, can someone tell me what the compression should be on a healthy 74 2.7

[LakeCleElum]

A "PPI" is a Pre Purchase inspection by a Porsche shop. That would pinpoint any broken studs. The stud thing requires engine removal and disassembly - Could be $5,000 US just for that. Repairing rust and paint could be that much or more. Most on this board will tell you to not consider anything with rust issues; if you can see it, you can bet there's a lot more that will be found later.

The idle and dying problem could be expensive problems with the CIS injection system. The issue with the shifter sounds normal, but be sure the trans syncro's are OK....Best to pay the few hundred to have the car professionally evaluated and go from there. It would be much better to spend a few grand more and find a 78 or newer SC with the 3.0 engine......Good luck...

[Kekec944/84]

The car is not going to be fully restored I just want somthing that I can drive and won't give me much engine problems and other 911's are out of my reach. What I really want to know if anyone knows if the problems can be solved to where it is a reliable car that I can be driven every day. And if anyone knows a ball park figure of costs if I did the work myself to fix the problems to where it is reliable.

[hoosierdaddy]

Your question about cost is like asking how many trees do we have in the USA . You need to have a ppi done to get a more accurate idea of the problems . Does the car have a pop off valve installed , if not you could have a cracked breather causing the starting problem . If you really want to buy this car , buy it cheap . I wouldn't pay more than 3k , so if the motor was bad you could just buy another and replace it . You have alot to think about .
Jim

[ruf-porsche]

[i]

The body did have some rust bubbling, what year did Porsche start making the galvanized bodies. Maybie I should be looking for one of those. [/B]

The 74 had some panels that were galvanized, but it wasn't until 76 that the entire 911 body was galvanized..

Take a look at a bunch of 911 before buyiong one. It took me 6 months of looking at 911 before I found my current 911.

From your discription of this car it sound as though you should take a pass.

[Don Z.]

I've owned two 1974s... a Mexican Blue coupe that I owned about 14 years ago (and I'd still own, had we had this board then), and a Targa Carrerra that I own now.

The rust would concern me.

The head studs could be a problem... but (and this is a big but), considering the miles on the engine, it may have already been done. Then again, it may have been done incorrectly. Needs to be checked.

The shifter, as you described it, is normal. It is easily "fixed", by a Wevo or Seine shift kit.

The Webers scare me. Yes, Webers are a good set up, and can be better than CIS. I say CAN, because it assumes the person who installed knew what he was doing.

But what scares me the most is that you don't know how many miles are on it. I say that because both of my 1974 cars had a six digit odometer. I remember selling the old one, mostly because of massive oil leaks and reliability problems with the CIS (couldn't get it to go over 4000 rpm without backfiring), with 135,000 clearly indicated. In fact, I think I could have solved those problems, had I the internet at the time. I regret selling it, and am considering a VIN search to see if whomever has it would consider selling it. The one I have now has 175,000 miles, clearly indicated, and oh, by the way, about 11 months ago, I drove it from San Diego to Annapolis. Been an almost daily driver since then.

[LakeCleElum]

If you're in the Pacific NW, there have been 2 '77 models (2.7) in the Seattle newspaper for many weeks. Both in your price range. I know nothing about either, but could send you phone numbers if you want......Like was stated above, look around a little. These things don't sell quickly in the winter "rain belt"

Do a lot more research before you buy. This one sounds like a money pit.

[Silveresrty911S]

You might wanna pass on this one, I picked up my '77 for 10,000 with a 3.2 that was professionaly installed with 90,000 on the clock, no rust and receipts.
It has been a non-issue as far as reliabilty and more importantly fun to AX and canyon run.
I know it's hard, but keep looking for "the right one for you". I spent about 4-6 months before I pulled the trigger.
You'll need a couple thousand on most cars of this vintage to clear up any issues they have, tires, suspension, fluids, electrical, ect......

[azasadny]

I've had my '74 911 Targa for 2 1/2 years and love every minute of it. If the car has been well maintained, the "dreaded head stud issue" isn't that bad. It seems to me that every car has known issues, you just need to be aware of them and plan accordingly. The '74 doesn't have all of the emissions controls that tend to drive the temperature up, so get a PPI and don't be afraid!

[dgcate]

My '75 came out of the seller's driveway under it's own power. It entered my driveway on a flat-bed tow truck. After 2 years of money and work, I decided to sell it, and it left my driveway on a flat-bed tow truck. I'm sure some people can, and do, drive those things regularly. They are the exceptions to the rule. The rule says those cars will never be "daily-drivers to the vast majority of drivers. If you buy one, be sure to have a toyota as back-up.

Just my experience, and I know I'm not alone.

Good luck
Dave

[dgcate]

Kekec...just one drop of "rain on the party"...

I paid 5800 usd on my car. I sold it for 4500 usd (gladly, I might add).

When all else fails, believe the market, it is impartial and doesn't lie.
They're the cheapest Porsche on the market for a reason. If at all possible, get an SC.

[dmarv]

I would pass on this Porsche. Price seems high and there is no documentation on upgrades being done. If this car had head studs, oil feed tentioners, turbo valve covers, front mounted oil cooler, trans rebuild, and no rust it might be worth $6000.00 USD. Look around some more.

[jluetjen]

Kekec944/84;
I think if you keep looking, you'll find a better car for comparable or slightly more money. You've found the right place for information on the 911's. A few thoughts...

1) After 30 some years, it's not clear to me that any of the original issues with the cars are really relevent since many engines have been rebuilt, replaced, etc. The real issues in my book are as follows...

2) RUST. Unless you like body work, beware of rust. If you find any rust issues, there is undoubtably more then you can see. It doesn't necessarily mean run away from the car, but be advised and take it into account in the price.

3) Lots of the 911's years had specific issues that scare people away. Don't let them scare you, just be aware and take it into account in the price.

4) I assume that you're looking at the "mid-year" models because they are in your budget. Lot's of guys will tell you to buy the SC's because they're better cars. Lot's of other guys will tell you to get the Carreras 3.2's because they're better then then the SC's. You'll then find lots of people telling you that the 3.2's have too many issues and you might as well stretch the extra amount and get a 964, or a ... Do you get my drift? Personally I believe that the 2.7's are amoung the best investments in 911's for the money. I'd keep my eyes open for a 2.7S, the performance was better and the incremental price will be relatively small.

5) As far as issues with the engines, sure the 2.7's have them. But after 30 years a lot of them have been rebuilt or replaced. It is good if you can separate an "out of tune" engine with one that needs a complete rebuild. If you can you might be able to negotiate a really good deal since a surprising large number of 911 owners don't keep their cars tune'd up. Alternatively you can find one with a good body and an obviously weak motor and bargain the seller down. You can then sell the motor as a "core" for $1K or more, and take the money that you saved to buy a nice reliable 3.0 engine. It will largely bolt right in and be a fun project.

6) Did I say rust on the pre-galvo'd cars????

There are a lot of guys on this BBS with '74-'77 cars who love them, (and who probably spent less money for the 911 experience then a lot of other guys spend on a tune-up, new wheels and tires!).

[Kekec944/84]

If you're in the Pacific NW, there have been 2 '77 models (2.7) in the Seattle newspaper for many weeks. Both in your price range. I know nothing about either, but could send you phone numbers if you want......Like was stated above, look around a little. These things don't sell quickly in the winter "rain belt"

LakeCleElum if you coud get me the numbers that would be great and if there is an online classifields for Seattle or even better all of Washington, can give me the website.

Thanks for all the help guys. I have looked at about 5 or 6 911s of this era in the last 2 years, these things usually get snaped up over here pretty quick, and this one in my opinion is the best for the price so far. The unfortunate thing is that here in BC you can't buy a porsche for as cheap as you guys can get them in the states. So maybie a look in Seattle will be a smart idea.

I will take a better look at the 911 I was talking about and let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks for all he help so far. Feel free to comment more if you guys feel there is sothing else I should know I will apretiate it.

[LakeCleElum]

Kebec: All have been advertised for many weeks. If you find something you like, I'd start with a low offer this time of year:

1) 77 911S - looks great, runs great 140K mi. - eng & trans very good. new clutch. $7800 OBO - 425-252-2984

2) 74 911S Taraga - 3rd owner...all records....$7,195 425-985-4014.

3) 77 911S - $8,000 OBO - 253-638-1217.

You can check periodically at: www.seattletimes.com
Also check: www. traderonline.com

From my experience, you get more for your money on the US side of the border. Dunno how it goes importing to Canada....Good luck...Bob S.

[MAS]

Originally posted by dgcate
My '75 came out of the seller's driveway under it's own power. It entered my driveway on a flat-bed tow truck. After 2 years of money and work, I decided to sell it, and it left my driveway on a flat-bed tow truck. I'm sure some people can, and do, drive those things regularly. They are the exceptions to the rule. The rule says those cars will never be "daily-drivers to the vast majority of drivers. If you buy one, be sure to have a toyota as back-up.

Just my experience, and I know I'm not alone.

Good luck
Dave

My 2cents:

I've had my 2.7 liter 77 911S for almost 2 years now as a daily driver. Aside from a good tune-up when I first bought the car (and regular oil changes), the only significant expense I've had was to replace the brake master cylinder for about $300 last year.

It's been my only car and a daily driver (quite literally every day) for almost 2 years and I've put on over 25,000 miles.

Also, I agree about the 2.7 rebuild comments. Amost all of these engines needed rebuilding (because of the head stud problem and overheating) within the first few years of the car's life. The cautionary tales about these engines would have made a lot of sense... 20 years ago. But, it strikes me as odd that these same cautionary tales are now repeated almost 30 years after these cars left the factory.

Anyway, the bottom line is to get ANY 911 checked out by a good mechanic who is familar with 911s before buying.

-MAS

[jwetering]

Hey Kekec

I'm from vancouver and am the president of the local PCA region (that's Porsche Club of America).

I only read the first few posts but have read enough to know that if you want a trouble free car then you have picked exactly the wrong one. Advice I give to anyone who asks is that there is no such thing as a cheap porsche. 2.7 litre cars can be extremely troublesome and expensive, yet worth not much after you spend the money to fix them. If the car has rust then this is doubly true.

The place to go for a good PPI and good advice is SCAN automotive in North Van. Andy Haglund there is the man. You should take the 74 there if you're serious about it, but you prolly won't like what he's going to tell you. Weber carbs with (probably) CIS pistons aren't a great combo. I run a set of webers on a 3 litre (with JE pistons) and I spent about $500 rebuilding them, and that's with me doing all the work.

If you want to talk you can call or email: 604.990.7299 or jwetering@shaw.ca. I'd be happy to eyeball this thing for you. How much is he asking for the targa by the way...who is the seller?

cheers!