912 is more PORSCHE than a 996?

[jfw834]

posted in Is the 911 a man's car?

Originally posted by jfw834
I saw a young brunette walk out of the post office and get into a very clean original 69 912 that i was checking out......it was hot...especially when she reved it up and sped away. it was the first girl i had seen in a REAL porsche (i've seen a chick or two in a 996 of course, one was a turbo).....

I posted this in another thread and someone suggested a discussion, so here it is... which is closer to a REAL 911, the 912 or the 996?

ultimately i would ignore the fact that the 912 only has 4 cylinders and vote for it as more of a "true 911". The 996 carries way too pedestrian of an image, people are driving them and have no knowledge or interest in porsche production OR racing history at all (OBviously not all 996 drivers, but enough to mention), the cars are water cooled, and they are too heavy and way too fat and bloated that I often mistake them for regular "euroboxes" where as the 911 and 912 have an unmistakable profile and shape.

don't get me wrong, I would take a 996 in a second and have fun with it....but to me, the 912 is still much closer in every way to the air-cooled 911's that defined the whole company from the 60s to the 90's. and this is why i made the comment....because i believe the reason for this male-dominated ownership to stem from the image of the "classic" 911s, not the 996 and it's present image. thoughts?

this is not meant to start people throwing large blunt objects at each other, just to have some fun....

[klaucke]

I vote 912.

[82SC]

now as much as I don't like the 996...

the 996 was designed with performance in mind and it does deliver.
Maybe doesn't stir the soul like a pre-73 911 but it does deliver world class performance...even though we purists may not agree with some of the aesthetic and mechanical details

the 912 was not created as a performance car nor one to stir up passion...it was a way to tie over the 356 owners and new 911 owners with a cheaper way to own a porsche.

I am not dissing the 912...I have nothing against them...but the answer to your question is 996

[Eli K]

912. 996 is WATERCOOLED

[jorian]

912.

In traffic I've never had a return wave from a 996 driver. Probably a leased vehicle with a driver who bought it to look cool at Starbucks. Had lots of enthusiasm from other air cooled folks though...

[wastintime]

having had a '67 912 I vote 912 as well. Besides, the 912 is aircooled, with a raceworthy engine. The 996 engine is a throwaway POS, the race variants use the 964/993 crankcase for goodness sakes. Also, not everyone's grandmother could drive a 912... like a 911, it meant something if you could drive it hard and walk away. The computers and suspension allow anyone to drive a 996 and look like a pro. 912s were true sportscars, the 996 is not a sportscar, it is a luxury car, a status symbol, nothing more. Lol, maybe my next early car will be a 912 again?

[k9handler]

I would like the chance to spend a week in each, then I would be able to give my opinion...otherwise it's simply my opinon of which one looks better. The 912 looks better.

[biosurfer1]

this is an interesting discussion in my opinion, two very different cars, 30 years apart being compared to each other. not too many makes in the world that have that going on, i certianly dont see anyone in the toyota forum debating whether the 05 camry is better than the 84 corolla.

i havent driven either one, but i suppose if i do, i probably wont choose which one is better because besides the fact they were made by the same company, they are different cars.
(by the way, 05 camry's are better)

[avsarinana]

Here's another question the 912 or the 911 Which car is closer to the one that started it all,The 356.

Art

[avsarinana]

The answer is none,they all have there own individual characteristics.weather it's the 356,912,or 911 there all porsche.And they all deserve there own respect.

Art

[ScottKelly911]

Last time I checked they both rolled off a Zuffenhausen assembly line, the difference is one was almost entirely assembled by hand, the other was only partially assembled by hand. Therefore they are both Porsches

[cgarr]

I like the 912, (because I have one) but also the 911, (have one of those too) I think back in 67 the cost differance was only about 200 to 300 bucks, My 69 912 targa sold for around $5400 new, you could have purchased a new 69 vette for about 4500 Thats not a cheap car too me. A friend of mine purchased a new 912 in 67 and also looked at the 911's at the same time, at that time there was not very much performance differance between the two, the fact was the 912 could out turn the 911 in those days.

Craig

[912phil]

Surely they are both Porsche........both designed and sort of built by porsche.....

If the question was which car represents more of what Porsche is about the answer would be the 912....

996 are good fun and freekishly fast but.....and its a big but!!! whats with the water???

oh and i love mine....

[Wil Ferch]

Craig:

What are you talking about?

I "was around" when the 912/911 series stirred my soul....and the performance difference between the 912 and lowliest 911 ( 911T) was considerable and noticable. As to the 912 turning better, that has no basis in fact, the suspension was soft. No argument...the 912 had less rear weight bias, but that's about it. I've seen ( lately) modded 912's putting the hurt on modded early 911's on the track.....but this was not the same thing as comparing stock cars in 1966 or 67.


Wil

[svandamme]

i'll take a cherry 912 over any 996 , 997 , boxster or cayenne , even over a brand new ones...

[Kurt B]

But the 997s have really come around. I saw one of these a few weeks ago. They're awesome looking. Listen, we can pretty much just pretend that 1999 - 2004 didn't happen. Porsche is back with the 997.

Everytime I almost get run over by a woman in a Cayenne, I think about the irony. COPS---> Some dude in old Porsche got waxed by Cayenne driving trophy wife: 'I didn't see the little red car,' the Cayenne driver says to Police. 'Those MG's and other old cars are so small. They're dangerous and hard to see. Someone needs to do something.'

You think a 996 owner doesn't share in the brotherhood? It's much worse with Cayenne owners. They don't even LOOK OVER when a 1979 pristine Turbo is driving by.

You never see those. Ever. When I see an old Turbo, I'm changing lanes to check it out. Cayenne owners are honking and driving him off the road.

[Don Z.]

You know, when I was in High School, I read a book. It was an "answer" to "Unsafe at Any Speed. The Designed in Dangers of the American Automobile". I forget the full title of the book, but the subtitle was "The Incompetent American Driver and How he Got That Way.". It was a very good book.

In the chapter dealing specifically with the Corvair (of which I have one being driven (a '65 Turbo Convertible) and another being restored (also a '65 Turbo Convertible... long story)), the book postulated:

"It is not Detroit's job to educate the stupid. It is Detroit's job to fulfill his ill-conceived demands upon the marketplace".

I think of that line often, especially when I hear complaints about the Cayenne.

Last I checked, Porsche AG was a publicly traded company. If I recall correctly, that means that the board at Porsche has a fudiciary duty not to race cars, not to design what we think should be designed, not even to make a certain type of car. Rather, their job is to provide maximum return to their stock holders. They Cayenne has proven very good at that. Don't like it? Buy a lot of stock. Sit on the board, and make changes.

Of course, one could argue that at one time, making very fast sports cars is exactly what they did. But I checked my data plate (from my '74), and it clearly states "Porsche GmbH". There is a difference.

Great little sports cars are now a side benefit. Want a really useful piece of trivia? Check out how many patents Porsche applies for and compare that to the average for a company the size of Porsche. There's a lot of R&D work going on there.

So, I say, let them sell as many Cayennes and 996s as they want. And Boxsters. Of course, "the end was near" with 914s and 928s and 924s and 944s.

Because without revenue, there is no company. No company means no cars at all. The people in Stuttgart don't need to educate the stupid. They need to fulfill their ill-conceived demands upon the marketplace.

With a little luck (and management skill), if they do that well, they'll be enough gross profit to allow racing... still leaving enough net profit to keep the share-holders content.

[SweetE]

Well, I gues the 912E doesn't count.
I purchased a new one in 76 and still have it. It is a great little PORSCHE.
I bought a 996 in 01 and still have it. Also a great PORSCHE!!
I love em both!!

[masraum]

I did a search on Amazon, appears to be out of print

License to Kill: The Incompetent American Driver and How He Got That Way

[masraum]

Originally posted by svandamme
i'll take a cherry 912 over any 996 , 997 , boxster or cayenne , even over a brand new ones...

To each his or her own, but that's just silly. I'd be all over a GT3, CGT, GT2, 997, Boxster S, or C4S if it was offered to me. Hell, I'd take any new or slightly used Porsche if offered to me as a choice.

I'd also love a cherry 912, but I wouldn't take it over the others unless it was one of the few modded 912 R style cars out there.