What's the diff between Koni yellows and reds?

Mike the mechanic · 12-16-2003, 06:58 PM

I just spent about 30 minutes reviewing the search results, but I didn't seem to find a post describing the differences between koni yellows and reds. I know they are both adjustable, but why the two different colors???
Thanks

Jeff Alton · 12-16-2003, 07:04 PM

The yellow Konis are the Sport models. Somewhat stiffer. I have them and think that they are great.
I hope this helps.

Jeff

Tyson Schmidt · 12-16-2003, 07:13 PM

Yeah, the yellow are Sports, and should be gas in the rear. The reds are Koni classics, which are also adjustable, but are hydraulic and much softer. particularly on jounce, which isn't adjustable. Only rebound is adjustable on both models.

Mike the mechanic · 12-16-2003, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the reply guys. I bought a pair of rear yellows, externally adjustable, at a good price, but I didn't bother to check the diff between the two types first. I'm happy i got the right ones. The stock Boges squat way too much with my new-found power. (bigger torsion bars are next)

Do I have to go with yellows in the front also, or can I mix? I currently have the boge front struts, so I don't want to have to get new strut housings if I really don't need to.
Thanks!

Tyson Schmidt · 12-16-2003, 07:32 PM

Well, the externally adjustable yellow sports are not gas.

Yes you should match the front and rear. Stiffer shocks in the back than th front will make it oversteer in transition.

You can get Koni Sport inserts for Boge strut housings.

But get this............... you CAN"T get Koni Sport inserts for Koni housings!!!!!!! (Stupid, I know.)

So you are lucky. Keep those Boge front struts and get some externally adjustable Koni Sport inserts for them.

Jeff Alton · 12-16-2003, 08:11 PM

I have got my sports in boges struts. part #8641 1039sport.

Jeff

Mike the mechanic · 12-17-2003, 02:59 PM

Jeff, thanks for the part number. Are those the gas or hydrualic sports?

Tyson, thanks for your expertise on the topic, greatly appreciated. Now i am really confused! So the red are hydraulic, the yellow gas, which makes them sport, but then again, the yellow with the top adjustment is a sport but not gas? Why would Koni do this, just to confuse me??? So do I have to get hydraulic sport konis for the front? Or can I use regular red konis, since my rears are hydraulic? Why can't they just make one type of shock....

Tyson Schmidt · 12-17-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike the mechanic
Jeff, thanks for the part number. Are those the gas or hydrualic sports?

Tyson, thanks for your expertise on the topic, greatly appreciated. Now i am really confused! So the red are hydraulic, the yellow gas, which makes them sport, but then again, the yellow with the top adjustment is a sport but not gas? Why would Koni do this, just to confuse me??? So do I have to get hydraulic sport konis for the front? Or can I use regular red konis, since my rears are hydraulic? Why can't they just make one type of shock....

Well, you should get the yellow Koni Sport external adjustable for the front, since the jounce valving, and the adjustment range of the rebound valving will be stiffer than the reds. And it will match your Sport rears. You don't need gas in front.

Jeff Alton · 12-17-2003, 04:44 PM

Mike, the 8641-1039 are twin tube low pressure gas adjustable front inserts for OE bogi struts.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Shuie · 12-17-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike the mechanic
Now i am really confused!

me to. I recently bought a set of sport yellows for my 3.5" front Koni struts. They are externally adjustable and I could have sworn that the package said they were gas.

Chuck Moreland · 12-17-2003, 05:56 PM

Actually the red and yellow konis are both gas shocks, front and rear. The yellow sports are about 25% stiffer valving, that is the only difference.

I believe the original OEM koni struts from Porsche where hydraulic. But the replacement cartridges are gas.

You can identify a shock as gas if it extends on its own when not constrained. Konis are low pressure gas shocks, in contrast to the high pressure Bilstein. This is why bilsteins are so much harder to compress by hand than konis. Konis require about 15lbs force, bilstein about 45 lbs.

Tyson Schmidt · 12-17-2003, 06:03 PM

Strange. The externally adjustable Koni Sport rear shocks I just installed on my car are reportedly "low-pressure gas", but they don't extend on their own at all. To me, this is a hydraulic shock. My external adjust Sports in front are the same way. They don't extend on their own.

So I guess if you substitute "low-pressure gas" for "hydraulic" in my above posts on the externally adjustable Sports, then we're cool.

Tyson Schmidt · 12-17-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shuie
me to. I recently bought a set of sport yellows for my 3.5" front Koni struts. They are externally adjustable and I could have sworn that the package said they were gas.

Me three! We tried like hell to get sport inserts for 2 of our client's cars that had Koni struts in front, and were told by everyone that all we could get was hydraulic inserts. Where did you get those from?

Chuck Moreland · 12-17-2003, 06:20 PM

It may be that koni is still making true hydraulic inserts for the koni strut applications. But the rears and the bogie struts are low pressure hydraulic. If yours are not extending, I think you have defective shocks.

I've had two koni for bogie inserts lose there gas charge within 1000 miles of new, but they were not DOA. Both replaced under warranty.

Shuie · 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyson Schmidt
Me three! We tried like hell to get sport inserts for 2 of our client's cars that had Koni struts in front, and were told by everyone that all we could get was hydraulic inserts. Where did you get those from?

Call Jason at Paragon Products. According to the guy I talked to at Koni NA, Jason is the Koni guru. He will know what to use if there is something available. Wayne can probably get these also if someone knows a part number.

Honestly, I think it may be the same insert for the Boge. When they shipped them, they came with the coarse thread gland nuts (I think its marked '087') that I was told were for a set of boge housings.

Tyson Schmidt · 12-17-2003, 07:01 PM

Thanks Shuie!

Chuck, every pair of Koni for Koni inserts I've put in have been hydraulic. All reds. I've never seen gas reds before. Maybe I need to talk to our supplier?????? We were told by many sources that all you can get for Koni OE struts, are red hydraulic Koni inserts. Also, my Yellow Koni Sport ext, adj. shocks do not say gas on them. I would assume they would say "gas-pressure" on the tube as a warning at the very least, no?

I will definitely call Jason in the future.

Shuie · 12-17-2003, 07:11 PM

No problem. I dont think I have my invoice anymore, but I will post the part number if I find it.

I called pelican first, and the sales guy I talked to didnt find a sport yellow insert for the part number on my strut housing. Koni was useless when I called them. The most useful thing they told me was to call Paragon.

The guys at paragon know a lot more about the Koni stuff than the Koni NA people I talked to. They got me everything I needed, including the plastikote paint code that to refinish the strut housings (T31 for the reds, didnt ask for the yellow).

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

This is a good link for Koni info:

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?page=index_v2&id=24&c=48

Note the discussion on using gas inserts.

Mike the mechanic · 12-17-2003, 08:17 PM

As Tyson said, I also have installed a couple of sets of red konis on Carrera's, and on both cars, all four shocks had to be manually extended, so I also thought they were hydraulic. I thought that even low pressure gaz shocks extend.
Thanks for all this info!!

Jeff Alton · 12-17-2003, 08:31 PM

The 8641-1039 sports extend on their own. Just a little slowly!!

Jeff