Reliability was one of the biggest factors that skewed my decision towards a 3.6 Varioram.
Basically in stock form it would put out as much as the best 3.0/3.2 derivatives. I really couldn't see any downsides to that.
Cost maybe... but I could do it.

Dane is right when he mentions the balance of power, torque and lightness as the goal for a great car vs power alone...

My goal was to build a driver's car, one that would be fun to drive, one that would be my daily driver, one I could take to the track and back home.

I personally don't think that a highly strung 3.2 would have accomplished that.

How goes the build progess, Matteo?

Really frustrating... coordinating everything was not that easy... and there are always little things that go wrong and set you back.

Still waiting on the wheels (wired money on 2/2/05, they should ship today) and a couple of bits and pieces. I am not too upset... But the car has been in the shop 6 weeks now... and I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet.

Welcome to project coordinator hell.

I put off (permanently?) my widebody partially because of the same reasons. I've done everything except widen the bod - all suspension and drivetrain is now COMPLETE. Bring on the track days.

You will love that engine.....just wait....... ;-)

Funny you mention that. We haven't even started on the WB conversion... as 2 different shops are performing the tasks.

So right now i have the 934 and IROC bumpers hanging over a narrow body carrera...

Plus whe have the issue of moving the car from one shop to the other... My 16' Fuchs are too small for the new brakes... and the 11' Fuchs (with 315 tires) are not going to fit under the carrera flares...

I think we'll flat bed the car and leave the calipers off....

We'll see...

"But the car has been in the shop 6 weeks now"

No worries till you hit the 4 and 5 month time lines.

Dane has seen an entire season come and go.

Double or triple your time estimate - and add 50% to the cost and you will be on track --

I intentionally plan my big projects for the rainy season here. They always take longer than expected and longer to do them right.

I'd really rather do everything once. Sometimes that takes more time and some extra thought.

Back to the subject? 175mph through turn 1 is NASCAR like speeds. :eek:

I wouldn't drive Alex's 3.6 through 1 at full throttle..too scary for me! I backed off at 130/135. Too busy to read the speedo at that point. Still the fastest I have been though 1 driving and it took me all day to get there.

I have never been to Pacific Raceway... but say what speed to you carry out of turn 9 and into the kink? I am trying to put 170mph into 1 into perspective...

Also what gearing is Ted using on his car? And what did the car start off as? Looks like a 964 C2... but these days you can never tell...

"I am trying to put 170mph into 1 into perspective..."

This may help. When NASCAR was here couple years ago I talked to a few drivers. There were crew chiefs having to stand at the apex of turn 1 and tell the drivers not to lift. Turn 1 is down hill and blind on entry. Lifting made you seconds off the pace by their accounts. Lifting on entry to 1 really unsettles a car on the transition and makes for nasty wrecks because of the bad run out.

Craig what kind of speed are you running turn 1 at?

"I still don't understand why folks try to pound the "I'm right based on what I say" philosophy into others' heads."

- I can tell you did not major in pschology in college...

Yup, Dane - I also hold (held) my car to 130 through turn one. With the binding urethane suspension and other issues I had, it was all I dare muster.

I had a few good drivers drive my car & it imbued a sense of distrust with the machine. My car will redline at 6,800 aka 163 mph through turn one......with the right driving talent and tires. Lets see what I can do next time out with everything fixed.

Ted was running on Hoosiers FWIW -

P.S. PS Chology wasn't my mayjor ;)

No doubt Hoosiers and a tweeked C2 suspension with the better aero package helps. But 175mph in turn 1 still requires a decent set of balls and a very fast car :)

Last track day I was running a new set of Elephant bushings and Kumho street tires. Not much I can think of that would make me want to go faster short of my hair on fire.

He was 'lacking in aero F&R' - he is adding a Gurney flap on the 3.8 tail and a splitter in front.

Those are some serious speeds - !

For me, the fact remains that Pacific Raceways may not be, uh, as forgiving a track as some others. My speeds will remain at the safer end of the spectrum.

We must schedule a track day at Portland when your car is done.
I love that place -

I haven't been to a PCA DE in a couple years now but I'd guess 170 is above the speed limit on turn 1 entry. :)
If I get a good exit out of 9, my car might chug to 130 at turn 1. Can't image 170.

I hate Portland :)

What was really weird for me was this:

I loved Pacific Raceways --- until I got the 3.6. Then Portland made it more fun due to the high speed sections, smooth track, and corners that place a huge emphasis on handling and smoothness. Pacific Raceways is more like a rough, run down roller coaster...that is still fun, even though rickety and more dangerous.

Of course passing everyone at the November Audi event (and violating 'the spirit of the day') made it even that much more fun --

Back on topic now does Ted also like Portland ?

My first run at Portland was with Jeff Gamroth in a hot 3.6 in and early car. What I was most impressed with was him litterally putting his bumper on the rear end of a turbo on the straightway after running him down...then passing with ease down shifting to 4th after the guy pulled over.

OK, that was an impressive 3.6 :) Got me!

Torque...lots of torque. Driven the Portland track twice since myself and never really got comfortable there.

Dangerious? Aren't they all? Never run something you can't just walk away from. Which is why I limit my track time :) Have now lost count of the totaled cars I have whitnessed at PIR.

Topic? That was lost loooong ago.....

I think Ted does like Portland.

Once you do other tracks, one realizes what a mess PRI in Kent is.
I still like Kent, lots of elevation changes make it really fun.

That very 3.6 car is what convinced me to go with a 3.6.

I don't care for portion off the back straight (curve) & the entry into turn 10. Almost lost it is a big way - while instructing 3 years ago.

Back end got out, too busy chatting while driving and did the 'ultimate trail brake' into the turn. It is a lot like turn one in Kent - KEEP THE FOOT DOWN. I didn't. Two sets of 15 foot skid marks from the back end - going both right & left.:eek:

Was the scariest moment in 7 years of track driving.

Craig,

Turn 9 is as safe as ever.... Looks two to three feet more open at the apex. New apex might be a foot or two earlier.

Early-in here still leads to gravel and concrete...

Here's a couple small video's of Ted's 3.8 making my poor little torsion bar non-ABS 4 speed work extra hard to stay out front :)

Video 1

Video 2

2650# and 430 hp = 6.162 :eek:

Hell, I am hoping for about 5.5 lbs/hp. ;)

Is it that bump, the periodic oil slick, or the wet surface that is bothering people about PIR?

So Lyall I gotta ask what is your top entry speed into turn 1?

Fun thread! 175 seems a bit fast for a NA 360+/-hp 3.8 pushing 2650lbs through turn 1 at Pacific Raceways... I think Henry's 650+hp 911 race car approaches that speed. Then again my FIRST HAND experience is limited to only my car. Did anyone get a chance to time some of Ted's clean laps?

BTW I just had Henry adjust my suspension and rotate my tires, and he talked me into a dyno proven exhaust mod that worked good on other NA 3.6 engines in his shop. My previous dual in dual out Magnaflow is now essentially two single in single out mufflers thanks to some awesome fabrication work. Throttle response is noticably superior than before...that's all.

Still I am a little confused by how it reached 175mph...

speed=(rpm * tire Dia)/(336 * gear ratio).

Assuming the biggest 18' tire (275/40-18) and stock final and stock 5th gear at redline you would have

(6,500 x 26.7)/336 * 2.98) = 173 mph

The 5th gear ratio should be .825 (I am assuming max theoretical speed of 180 mph) vs the stock .868 assuming the final drive has remained 3.444.

Craig do you have details of the gear ratios?

Its an early 90s chassis with that yr G50 FWIW. I know zip about it otherwise.

I also wondered about 175 - it was a Ted and John R. guesstimate based upon needle position vs. steering wheel. Zero time for speed watching at turn 1 at Pacific Raceways! Its is damn scary at anywhere NEAR that speed. Hell, 130 gets my attention is a BIG way....

I hear you about checking the needle... I bet it was more like 160-165mph with stock transmission.

I just run those numbers on my car... I would top out at only 163mph at redline.. :(

That is going to be my next project.... spend some money in optimizing the gear/ratios/final drive relationship.

I fanned out my ratios - even spacing across the board.
Ended up lowering 3rd and raising 5th - in my 915

I have a leg on you.... I am thinking on converting my G50 to 6 gears. On a 964 chassis it is pretty straight forward...

But first I need my car back....

PS
I can see the light of the tunnel... car shoudl go to the bodyshop next Monday (we had the wrong LSD from GT transmission) and then we just need corner balancing.... I hope to have it by the 1st of May... ready for the 21-22 DE at CMP

Gonna be a hell of a car. What tires?

BF Goodrich... 275/40-17 and 315/35-17. The poser in me could not resist... Had to go silly wide...

Poser, my butt. That width is excellent.
Can I talk ya into Toyo Ra/1s or Vistoracers - a MUCH better track tire?

Dude

my car is a daily driver... I go to work in it. And right now I need to recover from the mega $$$ spent on the whole thing before I get a second set of Lindsay Fuchs.

So with the Goodrich I hope I have a nice compromise... We'll see after the 1st event.

"So Lyall I gotta ask what is your top entry speed into turn 1?"

Dane,

I breath the throttle before turn 1 to keep my speed down (tiny bag syndrome). I've seen just over 6300rpm several times as I take a breath and prepare for entry.

The 8:39 R&P I have makes my speedo read low but my gear chart puts that at 160mph.

Unless I'm chasing or being chased :) I try to keep my rev's near 6k which is 151mph. PLENTY fast for me..

FWIW I run Proxes RA/1s on the street full time now, but then again I'm a filthy track whore (as I am sure you will also become).

The RA/1s are an excellent dual purpose tire when leaning more towards track performance. Jack Olsen etc etc recommended them as have about 12 others who run em. The BFGs are a very good tire with a treadwear rating of 140 or above as per some open track racing rules.

Rawk on. You will love your car.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I may never even have the nutbags for 151 through turn 1.

Toyo Proxes RA/1 are not avaliable in 315/35-17...

My choice was limited to the BFGs, Yoko AVS and Goodyear Eagle F1....

For your application the Victoracers are available - fairly equal to the RA/1s

Speaking of tracks.......

Ted (whose car we speak of in this thread), as well as other track friends have said that Spokane Raceway Park in Washington State is the mother of all exciting tracks.

One can achieve their vehicle's *top speed* every time on the hugely long straight, then must brake before the kink which leads into an insanely short braking zone before a very sharp turn. I've not been there yet, but will be going with a private group several times this spring and summer.

This track is the ultimate Pacific NW test of sphincter shrinkage.

But then I need to shave them b4 going to the track etc....

And if I go R compound then I don't have anymore excuses for my poor times...