How are the fog lights supposed to work on a Carrera 3.2...
 

My high beam headlights and fog lights on my 1989 Carrera 3.2 seem to be acting up.

Obviously something is wrong with the high beams, and the consensus here seems to be that it's the headlight stalk switch, though it could also certainly be the fuses, the bulb filaments, or something else.

However, none of that that seems to address the odd behavior I'm also getting from my fog lights.

When the fog lights are switched on with the headlights, aren't they supposed to shut off when the brights are activated and then come back on when one returns to low beam headlights?

Mine cut out when I go to activate the brights but then don't come back on when I return to low beam headlights. All of this has got me thinging that the problems I'm seeing are not the headlight stalk switch, the fuses, or the bulbs.

So how are the fog lights supposed to function exactly? Any further diagnoses on my problems?

I dunno, it seems like what you describe does not rule out a bad turn signal/high beam stalk switch, but rather further incriminates it. How are the fog lamps supposed to work? Well, they will only come on when the low beam headlamps are switched on, and they will go off when the headlamps are switched to high beam. I don't know if this works with all cars, but with my '87 the foglamps will also come on if I only pull the headlamp switch half way out (parking lamps). The foglamp circuit is definitely activated and de-activated by the main headlamp switch. And I'm sure that others have previously told you that Porsche drives the entire headlamp current through the stalk switch, so those are prone to fail in various ways.

Did anyone recommend the Marcus Sucro relay set, which eliminates the excessive current through the stalk switch? I have one, and it is well worth the piece of mind to not destroy my TS/beam dip stalk switch.

Bottom line: I would still suspect the stalk switch based on your description of the problem.

Tom

OK, but then why don't the fog lights come back on when I switch back to low beam lights?

if you rip the fog lights out, you save weight and your curious problem is solved.

I think that this performance is what really implicates your stalk switch. They get flakey like that when failing. Other folks have reported intermittant turn signal performance. You are getting intermittant fog lamp performance. Those switches just start to burn up inside and don't make continuous good contact like they should, due to the current load they are forced to carry.

Tom

So if I need a new switch, how much will that set me back? More or less?

Wierd thing is, when the fog lights have cut out, if I switch back to low beams, shut off the fog light switch and then turn it back on, the fog lights work normally and stay on until such time as I try my brights again.

looks like this is the page you need items from...maybe....http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_electr_pg5.htm#item23

it looks like your in the neighborhood of $150 +/- a few

I rewired mine to work independently of the headlight switch position. A new relay and a little rewiring is all it took. I like being able to turn my driving lights on even if the others are not on, I want people to be able to see me coming at them. Your case does sound like it could be in the stalk switch though.

Or you could just move the fog light wire at the fuse block from the low beam to the high beam fuse.

That way, the fogs will come on with the highs, and you can really light up the night road. Easy to do, and very effective!!!!!

As follow up to Andras post....

The USA cars are wired so that the fogs shut off when high beams are activated. Even this is "wrong"...as the fogs should come on independently of any hi/low beam lamps. When you truly need fogs, you don't even want low beams "on". The USA cars come wired so the fogs can come on only when the "low beams" are on.

So....in the same vein as Andra's post...move one grey trigger wire on the fuse block to allow power to the fogs whenever the parking lights are on. I've done this a long time ago. Now they come on whenever I want to...and if I want to...they stay on with either low or high beams too...but then I'd the same kind of A$$ as the local SUV drivers by having all forward-facing wattage "on" all the time !!!! At least you have more choices. I think the ROW ( "Rest-of-World") cars are wired this way from the factory ( fogs acan come on by themselves), and if you have the factory repair manuals....you can see where the trigger wire needs to be.

Wil

What Wil said!

it confused the hell out of me until i figured that the headlamps had to be on sidelight setting for the fogs to come one....:confused:

Right Wil,

The way I've wired it to the high beams, they "light up the night" on back roads, (like from Sebring Raceway to Palm Beach Gardens where there is not a human soul, but lots of animal souls), and visibilty is terrific with hgihs and fogs (the highs DOWN the road, the fogs along side the road).

Also, when I want to move people out of the left lane, I just flash my high beams, and with four brights hitting them, them move right over.

Finally, since one does not usually drive in "normal" traffic with high beams on, I do not become one of "them SUV and BMW" types.

Wil, Which fuse did you move the gray wire to. I take it was the parking light fuse?

It was a long time ago...I believe it was a "bottom" ( output) grey wire moved over one slot location near the front of the car.....it then becomes powered whenever the parking lights are "on" ( and *not* when the low beams are "on"). Yes...I recall it was the parking light fuse.

It may make more sense once you look at a factory wiring diagram. I believe Pelican even posts the diagrams separately elsewhere in the Tech section ??

Wil

Wil,
Thanks but the way I read your reply that means the fogs are on when the parking lights are on and they are off when the low beams are on. I want them on all the time. Compared to my wifes new BMW I feel like I've got a couple of flashlights for headlamps. I've been called a dim bulb before but always thought people were referring to my headlamps. I'll check the wiring diagrams.

No, the way Wil has it wired any time the headlight switch is pulled out one or two clicks the fogs can be turned on with the fog light switch. Or, at least, that's how it sounds to me.

If the yellow marker/parking lights are on then the fogs can be turned on.

Well Masraum you answered another one for me. I thought that's how they were wired. I'll try it as soon.

Tom,

You should also remember that each of our 22 year old cars might have wires jumbled, each one different. So Wil's wires might not be the way your wires, or my wires, are.

You'll just have to do a little sleuthing at your fuse block, and unhook what you think are the fogs, see what they are wired to, and then try re-wiring.

At the worst, you'll blow a 50 cent fuse. At the best you'll get lucky and get it right.

Give it a shot.

Thanks. This should be fun given my car's electric wiring knowledge/ability. At least the new meter should help and besides I may be selling the rainday car so will need some more lighting watts.

Hrmmm. My fog lights already work with just the parking light on.

Hi mmmmmmmmmmmm,

And your experience just proves my point; that in the 22 years since the birth of our cars (well, at least that of my car which was "born" Septermber 1982 and we took delivery in October), I've kept the wiring unmolested, except for this one change to allow me some night vision (who needs those green goggles?).

I wouldn't be surprised if almost everyone's car has had some "modifications" to the wiring at the fuse block.

mmm--

my suggestion is to get at your steering wheel stalk and look at the switch connections as you go flip from low beams to high beams and back again. You'll need to remove the steering column cover, I think.

IIRC, there are 3 horizontal contacts in the switch and they all need to be lined up correctly in order for it to function correctly. You might find that after you go from low to high one of the contacts is not lined up, preventing the fog lamp circuit from being re-established. I'd also recommend light rubbing the contacts with emery paper to clean all the connections.

nothing to lose except the time to check the switch. Whether you replace the switch or not (and I hope you can get away without it)I'd also highly recommend installing the sucro relay kit. it will take the load off the switch.

just my .02

Now for us electrical klutzes, can someone post a picture of which wire needs to get moved? I'd like to be able to keep my foglights on irrespective of whether the headlights are on low or high. Like Sebring has them - highs for down the road and fogs for whats along the sides...

I don't think the condition / contacts of the steering wheel switch has anything to do with anything...in this regard.

To recap..my USA spec car was delivered so that the fogs can only come on when the low beams are "on....and if the fogs are "on, they will go off when the high beams are "on". Fogs won't come on unless the lows are on first, too.

Moving one wire allows me to put my fogs on anytime I have the parking lights on...but the fogs never come off unless I switch them off. That means ( with the parking lights "on)...I can have the fogs on with low beams, with hi beams...and by themselves only.

Short answer....fogs can be put "on" as long as parking lights are on.I think the Rest-of-World (ROW) cars were wired like this from the factory.

Wil

Wil--
Reason I suggested looking at the contacts in the steering wheel switch is his situation that the fogs don't come back on after switching the high beams off. I thought the system was designed so that low beams/fogs are back on when the highs are switched off.

I like your idea of moving the one wire, now I just have to figure out which one it is. By pulling the headlight switch all the way out, both parking and headlights are 'lit'? Pulling the switch out one stop lights just the parking lights right?

Steve:
On your last point...right...pull out to the "First click"..and the parking lights come on.

At this point...you can turn on the fog lights with the separate fog light switch....

Aha....I see your point on the steering wheel switch. Good to go over the whole wiring schematic, though....

Wil

Asked the question on the PCA site and received the following reply:

Subject: Rewiring fog lights to be independent of headlights

Question:
If you want to make the foglights independent of the headlight switch, which wire must be moved on the fuse panel?"

Answer:
Move the grey wire from the bottom of fuse 7 on the forward fuse block (designated license plate lights), to the lower side of fuse 5 or 6 on the middle fuse block. These are hot with the key on. Check to see that you have the correct wire, as the other grey wire runs the license lights. Do not use the wires on fuse 8, which is designated fog lights. You will have to lengthen the wire to reach the new location. The fuses are numbered from the driver's end of the car. The first block has 1-3, the middle 1-10, and the last 1-8.

Chris Powell - PCA WebSite - 2/24/2005