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Wangrande's Avatar
 
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Quick trick for painting wheels w/ tires mounted. Get a pack of cheap playing cards and wedge them between rim and tire. Beats working tape around the curve.
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Old 02-26-2005, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
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I'm bumping this to get to the next step... to gain understanding if we can paint directly over a previously anodized surface. Here's some scribbled notes on my talks with Reed / Weidman....may have mixed the quotes a bit however , as to who said what. Some questions remain. Still.... both show a fairly consistant answer basis:

From Al Reed ( 714-632-3907):
- aluminum doesn't need primer...even Anodized
- yes, factory paints the centers over a pre-anodized surface.
- paints like VHT heat type, BBQ black, Rustoleum.....work very well and stick very well.
- surface MUST be clean..use laquer thinner or equiv.
- used to use Zinc Chromate...but environmental laws prevent this now.... followed by black epoxy
- true RSR finish use glass bead prep....


From Harvey Weidman ( pronounced "weed-man")....530-534-7903:
- must be low humidity, dry atmosphere for painting.
- surface must be clean
- don't need special surface prep
- most enamels already have plenty of adhesion promotors...don't need primers, unlike most urethanes. (Note to self...does this make sense? Aren't all paints either basically lacquer OR enamel ?? Is a polyurethane an "enamel" ?).
- something about "enamel reduces"..or "enamel reducers"
- maybe a light etching primer?


Both say pre-painted surface just needs to be slightly roughened and can be painted over directly.....

Both confirm that the factory Fuchs are entirely anodized, with the (later, mid 80's look) black center simply painted-over anodizing.

- - Wil
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:44 AM
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Good Info Wil. Thanks
Old 03-21-2005, 07:57 AM
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Harvey Weidman, in particular, has been extremely helpful and understanding of our endeavors here.

He recently confirms to use an enamal product on a well-cleaned example, during low humidity conditions. Black centers are likely enamel from the factory and roughing/scuffing is all thats needed there. The rim section doesn't need any special primer, and can be painted directly over the original anodizing with rattle can enamels that usually have a lot of adhesion promotors already included.

I guess this simply verifies that what "Spud" ( Doug Roberts) did is essentially the ticket for a "faux" RSR look........

- Wil
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:43 AM
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I'll also keep you gents updated on how they wear durring the racing season. So far after two very wet days at Sears Point they still look good as new. I'll let you know how the look after a hopefully much drier run at Thunderhill in a couple weeks.
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:41 AM
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Doug:
Many thanks for staying with us on this....

Hey...you didn't use a matte clear coat over the paint....did you?

- Wil
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:05 PM
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Wil, can you define "roughing/scuffing.'

is that going over it with a course scotchbrite pad or 600 grit paper or...?
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:12 PM
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The idea is that you don't have to take it down to bare metal....you just have to get it clean with enough "tooth"....I would imagine a light sanding or a good work-out with a scotchbrite pad should do it, so the surface "sheen" is gone. We didn't discuss that detail in length...but that was my impression.

Wil
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:19 PM
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Wil,

No, I did not clear coat them. They are track wheels and I am antisipating some damage, either due to to the environment or my own stupidity loading/unloading from the trailer

So, I figure I can easily touch up the damaged wheel if its not clear coated.

That being said, I think I may have clear coated if they were going to be street wheels.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:35 PM
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Wil, and others
This is my first post so bear with me.
First, I admire anyone that likes to do things on thier own. (that is how I got into this business)
All of the wheels look great and show care and effort to make a wheel you can be proud of.
I have tried most if not all of your experiments.and if I could, I would like to share some of my experiences with you.
Clearcoating: ask any painter about how clear darkens the color.
this is most pronounced over beadblasting. It will work, but you have to start with a color lighter than you want to end up with.
Powdercoating: there are good looking colors that are very durable and you can tape off the lip to look like the origional. My only caution is heat, aluminum changes it heat treat at a little over 300 deg and most powders need 425 deg to work. So find someone that understands the heat problem or as we do reheat treat.
Anodize and paint: anodize is a perfect substrate for paints as it stops the oxidation. Chromate, phosphate or iron-oxide also work well, but on bare aluminum you should use some type of adheasion-promoter or surface stabliser.
Spray-can vs spraygun: I like to recomend spraycans for the garage project because they frequently have the needed primers right in the paint, and they are free of moisture in the propellant.
(the biggest single problem in getting paint to stick to wheels) Also you can do a lot of experimenting for a little money.
Cleaning and inspecting: this is our first process and I belive it the most important. You would not belive the condition of some of the wheels I see. I strip the entire wheel and check for true,cracks snd wear. I want to make shure the wheel is up to the task. I have been driving Porsches for 30 plus years and I don't want to worry about the strenght of my wheels when I make a sporty maneuver.
Blasting and taping: yes you can tape and carefully blast a specific area.(this is how most others get an RSR finish) We do not blast our finish, we use the same anodizing process as Fuchs did.
Painting to match: I had to make a paint to match the frosted finish to use on the wheels that were widening using other than Fuchs barrels.(anodizing only works well on forged aluminum) It turned out well but it took some time to get it right.
I hope this helps, but I think I will make more questions.
Thanks,Harvey
Old 03-23-2005, 08:20 AM
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Harvey:

I think I speak for all of us....in that it is a pleasure to hear from you on this board. It is quite remarkable ( and it speaks to your character)...that we are trying to emulate a process that undoubtedly may take some of your business away. Yet..... here you are...offering sound and friendly advice....

What a guy! ....

Certainly, if there is any wheel refinishing business that is beyond my capabilities...or is simply something I need or want to "send out"....you are "Da Man !"......

- - Wil
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Old 03-23-2005, 08:41 AM
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Great info, thanks! I will post pics of my wheels on the car as soon as I get the fronts finished.

Cheers, Jeff
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Old 03-23-2005, 08:57 AM
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Harvey, welcome to the board! Would you be able to post good pics of your various finishes?

I am picking up a set of deep 6s for my 69E and would like the rears widened to 7Rs. I've heard you require a second donor set to do these. Can you use a standard "flat 6"?

Thanks

Shaun
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:01 AM
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Shaun, Yes, we use the late 6 to widen the early 6s. I would perfer that you suppily them, but I can try to locate them for you.
Thanks, Harvey
Wil, I was looking through my old pictures for Shaun and I ran across a photo that I did for a customer that wanted to see a RSR finish on a 6X16. I did't want to spend the money on anodizing for just a photo. I was in the middle of stpipping a set of paint-to-match wheels and I took a 6 that was carefully stripped of all the paint, taped the lip and very lightly bead blasted the rest, taped it and painted the black. it turned out suprisingly good.Keep in mind it is a tough job to get the paint off without harming the anodizing, and the lip must in good shape, but it might be the way to go.
Thanks, Harvey
Old 03-24-2005, 07:42 AM
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Harvey:
Would the RSR finish look strange on the center of the wheel leaving the outer lip clear; esentially having an entire clear wheel(rough center with clear smooth outer lip).
Thanks,
J.P.
Old 03-24-2005, 11:30 PM
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JP...

Allow me a stab at this answer... I think there is a great visual effect, especially as you "sight" down the body lengthwise, if you frost the rims along with the spokes....look here:

Another RS project. Mine! part 5

Wil
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:24 AM
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Wil:
I saw those and began drowling, then I thought; how would a complete frost center look with no black accents.
Regards,
J.P.
Old 03-25-2005, 02:41 PM
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If you're asking me....I would say not as good. But, to each his own....look at a recent Robert Woods ( ?) ad in Pano. Every so often a fully anodized rough/smooth wheel is shown with no black paint. I guess it would also depend on the color of the car and how historically accurate you want to be in mimic-ing the RSR look.

Wil
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Old 03-25-2005, 05:07 PM
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Wil:
I have those, I was thinking of something different, yet similar:


j.p.
Old 03-25-2005, 05:47 PM
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Certainly they have their own attraction.....especially on a dark or black car...

Wil

EDIT:
Holy Moly...we're up past 3000 hits !!
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:10 PM
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