Lime Rock Crash Clip - Couldn't keep up with Porsche

tommy911E · 02-09-2005, 09:08 AM

http://media2.big-boys.com/firstpersoncrash.wmv

RallyJon · 02-09-2005, 09:16 AM

Those are some mightly slow reflexes he has there. He's driving the easiest to catch car on earth and he just sits there as it comes around.

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

That sucks for him. What kind of car was that?

-Scott

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

did i hear right, did he say something like "amatures , something something" ???

to funny

on another note... he couldn't keep up with a Targa... see.. they can do well on a track... less stifness... yeah right... enoug sitffness to keep ahead of this joker

MovOvr1 · MovOvr1's Garage

I have seen that clip before....what kind of car is that. The sunroof switches look like the ones on my maxima but I can't place the center console or if there was a symbol on the steering wheel.

Brian

MikeWinDC · 02-09-2005, 09:27 AM

Looked like a Subaru to me.

RallyJon · 09:32 AM

That's Pat Olsen in a '97 Subaru Legacy GT. 165HP sedan. If you want the full story: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16247

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

I've seen that clip before. I've learned to not pat myself on the back too much because I have a 911 and he didn't -- it wasn't the car that caused the crash but the driver. There are lots of guys who have crashed 911's too.

Having lapped LRP a whole lot (and gone off a whole heap of times too!), I'd say that he got too comfortable using TTO to rotate the car without figuring out what to do if he goes too far. Not to mention he seemed to be making the novice mistake (BTDT myself) of taking his apexes too early. Look at how he almost ran out of room on the exit of the S's (specifically the last right before No-Name straight). Keep in mind that this is a DE and there aren't any rewards for fastest lap, so why isn't he leaving himself some margin??? Specifically on the climbing turn he spun on the entry and it looks like he lost confidence and lifted thus causing the TTO before he even got to the apex. If he had taken a later apex, he could have gotten on the gas earlier, and stayed on the gas (thus not unweighing the rear end) through the apex and flown through that corner faster then he was about to.

The Subaru wouldn't have flipped if he hadn't driven it the way that he was. And a 911 would have got him into a heap more trouble the way he was driving then the Subaru did. It's a little scary reading about all of his "I dunno's" in his post. Basically he got in over his head and was driving ahead of his brain.

Why do I sound like such an A**hole pointing these things out? Because I've done them myself -- at LRP too. Unless you're willing to look back and honestly figure out what went wrong, we'll have a whole lot of busted cars and injured drivers. Something that I'd like to avoid.

Remember -- cars don't make speed nor cause accidents (unless they break at speed) -- drivers are responsible for both of these things. Without the driver, the cars will generally sit serenely in their parking spots.

A few observations -- real roll cage would have given him more room then he had when the roof caved in. he estimates his speed in the 80's which sounds reasonable for that corner. This is something to keep in mind to anyone who figures that they don't need real competition safety gear in their 911 just because it's a DE and not a race.

Howard M · 02-09-2005, 11:35 AM

That's ME in the '76 911 Targa that the Sube was chasing! Man that video has got some legs. It's been around the world on the web for about three years. I saw the Sube and was determined to try and lose him in the esses. He hung in there pretty well until....he disappeared! Fortunately, no one was hurt.

P.S. Don't mess with me at Lime Rock!

Howard

RallyJon · 02-09-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

P.S. Don't mess with me at Lime Rock!

You're just lucky he wasn't driving an Accord, or a Camry--then you would have been toast!

fiminod · 02-09-2005, 11:47 AM

"The Subaru wouldn't have flipped if he hadn't driven it the way that he was. And a 911 would have got him into a heap more trouble the way he was driving then the Subaru did."

Spot on John, spot on.

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

Yep, i remember that clip. They showed it at one of our DE drivers meeting back in 2001 to "keep the hot foots in line"

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Should have figured the P-car owner would be here.

Seen that vid a million times over the past few years... Real drag for that guy, but as jleut said, turned in way to early..

Jason Cullen · 02-09-2005, 07:04 PM

Excellent Clip - Still laughing!!!!!

Jason

aigel · aigel's Garage

The last guy in the Subaru board thread hit it on the head:

"... if this really was your third time driving on the track, you should not have been out there by yourself."

Do yourself a favor and run with the PCA or another organization that teaches track driving, before letting you and others drive out there on your own.

A few questions I had:

1. Do you think this car has active traction control and other gizmos that will give you a false sense of security and then let go all at once?

2. Do you think he was on street tires?

3. Do you think there was a harness and sport seat?

4. Why do you think it rolled? Do you think a 911 would roll, in the same situation?

Be safe,

George

anthony · 02-09-2005, 07:59 PM

4 - He rolled when his rear wheels spun around and hit the burm.

I just took the Golden Gate Region ground school for DE and TT and the art of the late apex was a major point.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

A few questions I had:

1. Do you think this car has active traction control and other gizmos that will give you a false sense of security and then let go all at once?

I don't know, but it seemed to handle like a stock car which means it understeers. I think that this is why he was TTO'ing so much, to try to get the car rotated. Yes, you can do it, but you can also overdo that technique. Ask me how I know...

Quote:

2. Do you think he was on street tires?

Most likely, but I doubt that it would have made any difference.

Quote:

3. Do you think there was a harness and sport seat?

I don't have a clue.

Quote:

4. Why do you think it rolled? Do you think a 911 would roll, in the same situation?

I agree with Anthony, I think that it rolled when the tires got to the side of the road broadside. As far as a 911, I'm pretty sure that it would roll, or get close to rolling in the same situation. But the Subi and the 911 have flat engines which lower the CG quite a bit. When the car's going to go over, it's going to go over. If you TTO a 911, it would spin a lot more violently then that Subi did.

For comparison, watch this video from the Rudtners Web site of a driver taking a very smooth, sensible and quick line around the same track in a 911E (Lime Rock Park). Note that he's braking in a straight line at the end of No-Name Straight, turns the car in and is well on the throttle before the apex to The Climbing Turn.

JCF · 02-10-2005, 02:13 PM

Cocky Bastard.
Glad it was only his ego that was hurt .

donstevens · donstevens's Garage

I read the driver's report form the Subaru board and the good news is that he knew what he did wrong. He did not know what to do at the time of the incident but at least he honestly evaluated himself and learned a lesson. An expensive lesson though.

Don

peridotian · peridotian's Garage

Oh great, my first track event coming up in 1 week co-driving with my kid and I watch this. On the other hand I will email this to my kid about 40 times in the next week!