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Difference between a 956 and a 962

Do you guys know the mechanical and physical differences between a 962 and a 956?
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Old 02-22-2005, 05:28 AM
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It's mostly front axle before and after pedals. 962 is esentially 956 with longer front body to comply with American safety rules.
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Old 02-22-2005, 05:46 AM
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The big issue was with IMSA safety rules. The Group C 956 complied with the CanAm rules but the series of choice was IMSA. The largest issue was the driver’s feet couldn’t be forward of the front wheel centerline. Porsche addressed this by moving the front wheels forward, lengthening the wheel base from 2650 mm to 2770 mm. The aluminum roll cage was changed to steel. The fuel cell was enlarged from 100 L to 120 L but Porsche tried to retain as much of the 956 as possible.

The 956 engine was a 4-valve, gear driven 4-cam, with water cooled heads, and twin turbos. The original 962s had all air cooling, chain driven 2-valves, and a huge single turbo. Of course the engine configuration changed almost every year.

Best,
Grady
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Old 02-22-2005, 07:03 AM
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Plus...the 956's were typically run to Euro "fuel efficiency" standards....whereas the 962's running in IMSA were more like sprint races and the engine tuning reflected that. As an aside Derek Bell often cites he liked US racing with the 962's better because of this.......

Wil
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Old 02-22-2005, 08:52 AM
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Wil,

I agree, racers don’t like to be told they have to go slower to save fuel (unless you are leading the race and it saves a stop giving the win.) The FIA Group C fuel rules were “politically correct” at the time. One reason Porsche chose a turbo for the 956 was so the crew could regulate the fuel consumption with the boost. The accelerator pedal only goes to full throttle.

The Garretson 935K3 (3.2 twin turbo) I drove got about 2.8 MPG at about 650 HP where the Group C spec was 55 L per 100 Km (4.28 MPG.) The 2649 cc (92.3x66) 4-cam in the 956 was spec at 620 HP (@8200 & 1.2 bar). The 956 was able to get noticeably better (particularly at reduced boost) than spec. I have heard of numbers like 6 MPG and still get close to 580 HP - remarkable. I think it was because Valentin was short enough to run around inside the turbo and work his magic. His intellect far exceeded his stature.

Best,
Grady
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:33 PM
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The neat thing was that while the IMSA Spec 962 would race faster then the FIA spec 956's, but the 956's could really put the screw to the boost and would have incredible qualifying HP #'s. Kind of like having a 911 RSR, and then having to race it with a 5000 RPM red-line.
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Old 02-22-2005, 04:19 PM
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You might want to check out this book. If it's anywhere near as good as the author's book on the 917, it's well worth the money.

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Old 02-22-2005, 04:24 PM
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Valentin Schaeffer...I presume, Grady.....I agree.

This whole gang ( Schaeffer , Norbert Singer, Peter Falk, Hans Mezger, Hellmuth Bott) are what *made* Porsche's racers !!!....unfortunately, they're all gone and the current crop of "engineers" at the factory don't have the "mentoring" it takes to properly do a battan-pass to the next generation.

I am truly, truly afraid that Porsche will have its A$$ handed to it on a silver platter when ( if) they ever get back into big-league racing....

Grady, we all live vicariously through you...man-o-man a 935K3...would love to toe my boot into one of those !!!

Wil
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Old 02-23-2005, 06:36 AM
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"I am truly, truly afraid that Porsche will have its A$$ handed to it on a silver platter when ( if) they ever get back into big-league racing...."

Others have thought this, and history has proved them wrong. Have some faith brother.
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Old 02-23-2005, 06:51 AM
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What seems to be missing is the Passion that the earlier Porsche Men had. Do you think Wendelin has any passion, other than for Money?

I've met Peter Schultz, as have others on this BBS, and when you spoke to him he had the passion, but even he failed to get Porsche into the black as had Wendelin.

It seems to me, having seen the progress of Porsche AG over 30+ years, that the children of Ferry Porsche are now all intersted only in their own retirement funds, and not in the process of winning another one for Ferdinand.

When the passion is gone, the penis is flaccid!!!!
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Old 02-23-2005, 06:56 AM
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Has no one else seen that Porsche will be running an LMP2 car at the tail end of this year? I read that on grandam.com or a le mans website but it said that Porsche would be racing this year as a factory team in something other than a GT3
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Old 02-23-2005, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grady Clay
Wil,

The Garretson 935K3 (3.2 twin turbo) I drove got about 2.8 MPG at about 650 HP where the Group C spec was 55 L per 100 Km (4.28 MPG.) The 2649 cc (92.3x66) 4-cam in the 956 was spec at 620 HP (@8200 & 1.2 bar). The 956 was able to get noticeably better (particularly at reduced boost) than spec.
I am assuming the 956/962 body work had to be a little slicker too.

Whose 935K3 did you drive? You mentioned Garretson Enterprises. Was this the Daytona winning car?

I have always loved the 935s better than the 956/962. Perhaps it was the recognizable roofline. Perhaps the more dramatic looking acceleration. Perhaps the Huge rear tires. Most of all I love the sound of them.

Don
Old 02-23-2005, 07:01 AM
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I think a few of you miss my point...

If indeed I am wrong "as others have been before"....then the "as before" at least involved the men I'm talking about. In the near future, this won't be the case, as these key guys are gone and the "youngsters" who come in from behind them did NOT have the benefit of a mentor as they now take the reins of (technical) power...

See my point.... ?

I guess I'm hopeful but at the same time concerned....

As to Porsche running a major-effort LMP car...its news to me! More!

Wil
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Old 02-23-2005, 07:13 AM
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Don,

Yea, that was the Daytona winning car with Bob Garretson, Brian Redman, and Bobby Rahal. I was volunteer crew “race director” for the team. I kept the laps, lap times, calculated fuel consumption, tire wear, who was driving, who was up on deck, transcribed the hourly sheets, and much, much more. This let Crew Chief Jerry Woods concentrate on keeping it running and get an occasional wink. I never moved from the hot-pit for the entire race (empty Gatoraid bottles come in handy). This was in the days before laptops – all paper. The critical issue was to be prepared every lap with a recommendation if the car showed up unexpectedly.

The next year I got to race the 935K3 starting at Sebring.
Driving at 215 mph was much easier for me than 36+ hours on my feet.

I would like to make the point how worthwhile and fun it is to volunteer crew for a Porsche team. It can be a GT-5 914 or a Cup car. This is part of what makes Porsche racing so successful – all of us. I even got to crew on the Factory team at Nurburgring when we were there picking up a new ’74 RSR.


I hope Wil’s assessment proves to be wrong although I don’t disagree. Porsche has such a good and valuable thing with Factory Racing, and it isn’t all about money.

Best,
Grady
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Old 02-23-2005, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jluetjen
You might want to check out this book. If it's anywhere near as good as the author's book on the 917, it's well worth the money.

This is a great book. I am on chapter 4 as we speak. Highly recommended!

Chris
Old 02-23-2005, 08:44 AM
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I don't know much about the 956/962's but i thought you might like to see this little collection a friend has behind his house......

Now which do i drool over first?

Walter Brun's 956

Derek Warwicks 956

3rd car back is the Huysman, Sigala, Santal 962



3 shots of the Mass/Wollek 962
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:16 PM
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This is not fair. Life is not fair!!!!!

Where, pray tell, does this person live?
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:21 PM
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Tell me about it Andras!
He lives in the south east of England.

The owner drove the Rothmans car in the group c support race at the Le Mans 24hr in 2004. To be honest, that 15 min support race was more exciting for me than the actual 24hrs!
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:26 PM
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Herr Singer has retired but WILL do consulting work for the Porsche race team. Singer isn't going anywhere!
Old 02-23-2005, 02:26 PM
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I got to drive a 962C once! Unfortunately, it was all of about 30-40 feet from the Andial/PMNA courtyard into the garage! Does that count?

FWIW, the 3.0L & 3.2L single turbo air-cooled version sounded much, much better then the later twin-turbo water-cooled version. Those motors would howl almost 8 hours a day on the dyno during the short winter "offseason" for testing various camshaft profiles, turbos and electronics. IMO, the best sounding motor during the GTP era was the V12 Jaguar. The shriek that motor made on the banking at Daytona at night would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Pity that they went to a twin-turbo V6 motor in the later years trying to keep pace with the Nissan GTP-ZXT.

When I worked for Andial (who built the vast majority of 962 & 962C engines for IMSA competition), we used to get many of the teams for the week leading up to the Del Mar street race. They needed a place to work on the cars and what better place then the engine supplier! Jim Busby Racing was located in nearby Laguna Beach.

The car I drove my "stint" was Moretti's (MOMO CORSE) 962C. He would run the car in tandem with Walter Brun's TORNO liveried car and utilize the same crew as well as some of us "volunteers" for the weekend.

We used to get the Porsche Indy Car guys as well the week before Long Beach. Never got to drive (or even sit) in the March though.

Grady, I feel your pain as I too stayed up for the whole 24 Hours of Daytona in 1991 while working for Dyson Racing for the weekend. I even still have a videotape of me in the background (black face because of brake dust) with a ESPN reporter talking to James Weaver who had just exited the car in the early morning hours after his stint.

Anyway, Joest ended up winning the race after the Dauer 962 driven by the Andretti's (remember the Andretti vs. Unser challenge that year?) developed a clutch problem in the last couple of hours and Porsche held a big victory party that night that all of the Andial guys were also invited to. I remember that EVERYBODY was so tired and just wanted to go to bed and the Joest transporter driver actually fell asleep and put his face right in his soup!

I have got tons of pictures from over the years. I wish I had a scanner! Oh the stories I can tell from those days...

Ralph
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:59 PM
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